The Seamus Fox Podcast.
This podcast has been created to share real life experiences from inspiring people in all walks of life, those who have engineered change in their own lives through a shift in thinking and beliefs. I want to share my own journey and have others share theirs so that it can help inspire others to crete the internal changes thats needed to create long lasting life changes.
The Seamus Fox Podcast.
Wealth Management During Global Economic Uncertainty: A Conversation with George Flynn
George Flynn of Garrison Financial Planning shares insights on navigating market volatility and developing a sound investment strategy that withstands economic uncertainty. His approach emphasizes data-driven decision making and understanding the psychology behind successful long-term investing.
• The best time to start investing is always "yesterday" – time in the market beats timing the market
• Market data shows impressive odds of success: 70% chance of positive returns after 6 months, 83% after 5 years, 93% after 10 years, and 100% after 20 years
• Understanding the difference between trading (speculation) and investing (long-term wealth building)
• Investment vehicles explained: stocks (concentrated), ETFs (more diversified), index funds (highly diversified), and bonds (stable income)
• Media sensationalism can trigger emotional decisions – "The Weather Channel loves a hurricane"
• Investment is like a bar of soap – the more you touch it, the smaller it gets
• The average investor significantly underperforms market averages due to behavioral mistakes
• For business owners: focus on protecting capital from inflation and efficient wealth transfer
• George's practice focuses on providing clarity and structure for business owners and their families
Turn off the financial news, stick to your long-term plan, and if you're not working with a financial advisor, consider finding one who can help structure your investments appropriately for your goals.
Hey guys, so welcome back to the podcast. I'm looking forward to speaking to this morning's guest, mr George Flynn. George is a client of mine and I wanted to bring him on to have a good conversation at a time when it's most likely needed, when everything seems to be up in arms in the world of investing, finances, tariffs and all of that stuff. So, george, welcome to the podcast. James, good morning, thanks for having me, george. For people that are listening in and don't know who you are, give me a wee bit of a brief introduction as to who you are and what you're involved in.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I am the MD and founder of a business called Garrison Financial Planning in Dublin. We provide financial advice and wealth management services, typically to business owners. So I suppose in a sporting term, we kind of act as the financial quarterback or the financial controller for wealthy families and business owners. I've been in the industry for 20 plus years, worked in an incumbent large firm in Dublin and was part of a team that brought one of the largest UK wet managers into the market in Ireland in 2011. And then in 2021, I took a leap into becoming a business owner, which is interesting. So, yeah, so that's been. It's been brilliant, interesting, a great learning curve. But and it's interesting times again, yeah, Big markets, MWDR.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I wanted to bring you on, george, this morning, because a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are entrepreneurs, business owners, people that are investing either in themselves or investing in your future. They're entrepreneurs, business owners, people that are investing either in themselves or investing in your future. They're investing into the stock market, and I suppose I'll go through a few questions. With everything that's going on right now, george, is now a good time or a bad time to start?
Speaker 2:investing. This might sound flippant. It is always a good time to start investing. The best time to start investing is yesterday or as early as possible. But no, I think most people now are just staring at markets and they're staring at the news.
Speaker 2:You have to understand the data and long-term data. Your odds of success in investing is time in the market. So if you're investing for the short term, yeah, it can be volatile, but all the data shows that investing in the long term, your odds of success are quite high and there's a myriad of studies that show. Even if you invested the week or the month before a particular crisis going back to 2008, the financial crisis, going back to COVID so you invest at the top of the market before a particular crisis going back to 2008, financial crisis, going back to covid so you invest at the top of the market before each of those crises you're still going to be in a rude financial health, um, over the long term. So, um, you know, short-term markets, markets can be long-term. Uh, your odds of success are quite high.
Speaker 2:But, um, I just you know, when you're dealing with media and media like to sensationize things in the short term, it can be quite unnerving, and I suppose we're as humans. We're wired, um, we're wired for survival. We're probably not, you know, not wired to think about money management and, over the long term, we think about the short term and the short term risks, and there's, that's, that's, that's, that's what's probably going on. I'm not being, uh, I'm not diminishing what's going on in the world, but, um, to answer the question, absolutely, it is a good time to invest, yeah, so why did you have a long term time horizon?
Speaker 1:as warren buffett says, unless you learn to manage your emotions, don't think you're going to manage money. Exactly okay. So for let's break it down a wee bit more then, for people that are listening, starting from the basics. What is investing, george? Give people an understanding of people that are maybe thinking about it and wanting to get into it. What is investing?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a broad question, I suppose, just to take it back and look at money as an asset and say, well, we all get paid, we all own assets, we have salaries, we have savings, and if you look at, inflation is really the driver of investing, in the sense that obviously a lot of inflation is not a good thing. But a small amount of inflation, typically around 2%, is generally considered to be beneficial for purchase spending. It spurs wage growth, facilitates debt repayment. Obviously you've got fixed debts and if you've got a small level of inflation coming through in your investments and your earnings, that's a good thing. But the key is that with inflation, the value of your money can diminish over time if you do nothing with that money. So you have a job, you're earning, you're getting a wage increase, maybe every year, in line with inflation. That's great. It's what you do with that money afterwards? Or you have a business that you've sold Fantastic. But what do you do with that money afterwards? And a lot of cases that money will find its way into deposits that will perform at a level below inflation or they'll find themselves into.
Speaker 2:When I use the word low risk, I mean very low volatile type investments that typically deliver a very low what we call a real return, ie the return after inflation.
Speaker 2:Inflation is running at 3% and even investment that's performing on average at 4%, your net real return is 1%, which isn't really going to move the needle. So the problem is over time, if you do not allocate your capital into assets that have the ability to grow above the level of inflation, the value or the purchasing power of your capital will diminish. So if you look at the euro basis, over the last 25 years, the purchasing power of that one euro has declined somewhere in the manner of 40 to 45%. Power of that one euro has declined somewhere in the manner of 40 to 45 percent. Okay, so you need to expose your assets and your capital to something that's going to grow over time. Equities have shown that they've delivered arguably the highest return over time on on a risk adjusted basis. On over a longer term, okay, there are private equity investments that can deliver higher returns, but they come with higher risk. So, on a risk adjusted basis, equities have shown to be the best forming asset liquid asset over time.
Speaker 1:I know that was kind of a broad question what is investing?
Speaker 2:Because it can go many different forms.
Speaker 1:We're talking specifically, I suppose, about finances here. So what's the difference, then, between people that invest and people that trade, trading and investing?
Speaker 2:Like it comes back to understanding the data right. So if and your time horizon, so typically you know a client who is investing if mostly what you'd expect would have an advisor and they're planning for retirement or they're planning for you know, to save for, you know students' education planning for retirement or they're planning to save for students' education, save for retirement, just save for their life and their life in retirement. Trading is basically speculation. I would know many professional traders that have worked in the industry and their odds of success are mixed and it's very short term, very concentrated and does in some cases involve leverage, so it kind of comes with a major health warning.
Speaker 2:I think the real danger is that you know there is, particularly in the US, you see a lot of, I suppose, amateur traders or day traders or armchair traders and, again, odds of success are really really low. Because if you're not going to invest or buy an asset that you're convinced about the long-term prospects of, I don't think you should be holding it. But I suppose it sounds sexy that your people trade, people that maybe have a nature that like gambling or like sports betting and there might be appeal to this. But trust me, you can get your ass handed to you very quickly, yeah. So in my view, trading is speculation. Long-term investing is quite sensible and prudent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the two are different and some people try Totally different. Yeah, I, the two are different.
Speaker 2:And some people try and Totally different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose some people confuse the two as being the same, but yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2:that's a real issue for us. You know in our business that you know to the uneducated eye and like we come across, really sophisticated people in terms of their you know, built successful businesses and, you know generated a lot of wealth, but they wouldn't have a clue about you know market investing and structuring it properly, and they would kind of throw the industry into one basket of oh, it's all speculation when it's not Hmm 100% Okay.
Speaker 1:so again for people that are listening and they want to try and educate themselves on this, a couple of questions here, George Sure, so you hear a lot of different things a lot of different terminologies ETFs, stocks, indexes, bonds. People don't know where they should go, what they should be doing, what they should be investing under, what to even look at. Can you break down a few of those things in terms of what are the differences between what's an ETF, what's a stock, what's a bond?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. An ETF, what's a stock? What's a bond? Yeah, sure. So I suppose, start at the bottom and I'll say different. So direct stocks so stocks are listed in stock markets globally and you can, as an individual or even with a financial advisor, go and build a portfolio of direct stocks. You know, and I see it all the time, clients could have anywhere from 20 to 40 stocks in a portfolio. That might sound like a lot, it might sound like it's quite diversified. It isn't. It's actually quite concentrated. If you think of the universe of investable stocks is in the thousands. Then a portfolio of 20 to 30 stocks is quite concentrated.
Speaker 2:Again, without trying to get too technical, it's only really a handful. It's 4% to 5%, 6% of stocks in the market that drive the market return at any given time. Okay, so we call that like market leadership. So if you go back to the technology Seamus I think you're old enough to remember this the technology crash in dot-com. Okay, so the market was being led by a bunch of technology stocks that drove the value of the market up. When we go back to 2005 and 2006,. Before the financial crash, it was typically finance and banking and real estate that was driving the market return. We come now to 2020, just after that and up to now it's been the kind of magnificent seven stocks. So that's always going to rotate. And if you've got a direct, a portfolio of 40 stocks, how are you going to constantly reposition that to get exposure to what sectors are leading the market? And investment is like a bar of soap the more you touch it, the smaller it gets right. So if you're constantly in there and you're trading, you're trying to pick trends, it's brought danger and again, all the studies show that that type of approach nine out of 10 times fails and that's not just a hearsay. The data from standard employers would show that nine out of 10 times an actively managed portfolio will fail to beat its benchmark. That's IE in the US versus the S&P, or globally versus MCO world. So that's the stock end of it.
Speaker 2:And ETF is effectively like a, a collection of stocks that that trades on exchange. So it's like a portfolio of stocks, um, and they can be, you know, one that tracks the s? P 500 or one that tracks a portfolio of real estate assets or, um, you know portfolio technology stocks again, and some are broad, broad market exposure, some are narrow, but it's like a fund. Effectively, an index fund is similar but different in the sense that you can buy a broader again exposure to global indices such as the MCI World, where you'd have developed world, where you'd have like 1,400 companies. And that's where it gets more interesting, because you're now getting exposure to a portfolio that's 1,400 stocks, for example, that if one company or two companies or a sector subsector within that struggles, you're not going to get absolutely punished or creamed. You're highly, highly diversified and typically they're very low cost, whereas direct stock portfolios are very expensive to run because you need someone with their hand on on it all the time. Expensive to run. Etfs are cheaper, index funds are cheaper and we would. We vast vast majority of our clients are exposed to etfs and index funds. We just think it's a sensible way for the educated and uneducated investor, the advised or unadvised investor, to allocate their capital.
Speaker 2:Bonds is effectively an IOU issued by a government or corporate entity where they're issuing debt at a fixed, mostly on a fixed coupon basis. You can buy a bond from the Irish government and they'll agree to give you, you know, 3% or 4% a year over 20 years. It's liquid, you can sell it at any time, but it's a government guarantee. So it is, in effect, a better credit than having your money on deposit deposit. However, the value of that bond, between the day you buy it and the day the government pay you back your 100 euros, can fluctuate depending on interest rates, depending on inflation, depending on the economic outlook, depending on the currency.
Speaker 2:Um, but there is a place for them as a, particularly in, you know, retirement planning, whereby you know people like to want to draw their money out of their pension every year. So maybe they should have an allocation of bonds. That you know, because markets can move very drastically in the short term, as we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and the last thing you want to do is having to dip in to fund your annual pension drawdown after the market has gone down by 20%. So it's always sensible, within a pension fund, that you have a proportion of your assets in very what we call low volatility type assets, that when you need to draw down your annual amount, you can do it from that pot, whereas the equity piece, be it an index fund or an ETF, is more geared towards long-term growth, so they're usually seen as more stable, more secure, stable yeah.
Speaker 2:Again, not you know when you they have a place, but not you know a level where it's a hundred percent of you know for someone who's in terms of their portfolio exposure, in terms of someone who's planning for a long-term investment or planning for retirement, they absolutely do have a place.
Speaker 1:Is that why I heard maybe and I don't know if it's really true or not was that some of the reasons why Trump has maybe paused the tariffs Because it was actually something to do with the bonds, or something to do with the bonds dropping?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just getting messy now where the US, to fund their deficit, have been issuing swathes of government bonds. So they've been issuing debt over the last. Well, they're always at it, but really scaled it up over the last 10, 12 years and the US balance sheet has expanded massively over that period of time. So the US is becoming quite a, you know, highly indebted nation. And who are the buyers of those bonds? Typically is the chinese, um, so chinese hold the power here and they, you know they've been dumping some us bonds of late just to put pressure on the dollar and put pressure on the currency. Um and um.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's really what we've seen over the last week or two okay, um, with everything that's going on right now, then, george, like what for people that are invested, what is probably some of the worst things that they can do?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, okay. Well, firstly, I think the media is an issue, because that kind of whips up fear and again to the unadvised investor. Or sometimes there's a real problem in our industry weak financial advisors whereby they're led by the client and sometimes in this business you have to argue your point and you have to be quite strong and firm with clients because the client might think they're doing the right thing for themselves and their family, when actually it's it's, um, you know, it's financial destruction, really mass destruction on on their own personal balance sheets. So sometimes you have to hold the line with clients but, um, you know, with the media, at the moment, obviously it's on 24-7 and you have to realise media outlets are there, one to report but two to sell advertising. So I always use the analogy the Weather Channel loves a hurricane, okay. So financial media loves when shit hits the fan with markets. And you've got I won't name them, but some of these people, the pundits. They're not credible. If you actually analyzed some of their market calls over the last 20 years, they're disastrous. Again, they probably successfully predicted nine out of the last three recessions and all that kind of stuff. But that resonates with people. Bad news travels further than good news. So, firstly, turn it off.
Speaker 2:If you've been advised to put in a long-term financial plan for you, your family, that's based on your age, your timelines in terms of retirement, your goals, how you want to live in retirement, that's getting the foundation in place. That's the most important thing. The investment piece is easy, absolutely easy. It can be commoditized. You can buy an index fund, you know, and it's down to odds of success. So you know in very simple terms if you hold an exposure to global markets on a rolling basis right over the last 100 years, you have a 70% chance of being up in positive territory after six months. Okay, so that's. There's still 30, 30 so downside. Okay, let's push that forward. In five years you'll have an 83 chance of being in positive territory. That's not speculation, this is just hard data. So you've you've an 8.3 chance out of 10 of making money on a five-year view. On a 10-year view, you have a 9.3% sorry, 9.3 out of 10 times chance of success, and on 20 years it's 100%. So this is data. The hard facts are investing over the long term, you will make money. The the biggest threat to you to that is, at some stage, panicking, selling, trading, getting. You know, getting in the middle of it, you know, pulling out of equities, trying to dip back in market at timing. The biggest threat to your financial future is your behavior. The investment piece is easy.
Speaker 2:A lot of people in this industry try and overcomplicate it, make it sound far more sophisticated than it is, to, I suppose, justify their own role, justify higher fees. It isn't. It's cold, hard data. And in a sporting terms, if you look at, for example, a bit of a rugby head, you look at the Springboks. They've had massive success in the last couple of World Cups. Why? Because they just look at the data. They look at picking a team that they've analysed all their players to death, in the sense that they're picking players that hit the most rucks, that make the most crucial interventions in the game, ie passes or tackles or, you know, defence pressure, all that kind of stuff, line-outs. They break down the data to find the best group of players that can consistently perform over time and that equals success. I think Liverpool have done the same in how they sign players. They just look at data all the time and again that's how they pick people like Mo Salah and all that right.
Speaker 2:So if you look at the hard data and markets I've given you there. You know you're going from five years to 10 years, 20 years. Your odds of success are extremely high. You know you're, you're hardly going to get anywhere. So once you understand that it's a case of allocating your capital sensibly, at a low cost, and just you know, leave it alone and just you know, touch in every year, review it, review your plan. But you know your, your financial plan and your investment strategy should be tied to you and your, your long-term goals. It shouldn't be tied to what's going on in the media yeah, so as, as people say, it's the only market.
Speaker 1:Then when there's a big sale on, people panic yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Amazing, like if you saw a rolex watch going for you know 70 or 60 percent of its its uh retail value, or or a car, or whatever you know to be a clamor, but it's psychology 100 fear, fear, fear and panic I suppose like understanding that then, george, like for for people right now, with all the stuff that's going on, the tariffs and everything that trump's doing etc, and the pressure that brings, having that long-term strategy is great, but there's probably a lot of people then we're kind of near the age of retirement and yeah, sure, and we've, we've had to navigate that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that is an issue. And again, that's where the value of of a good advisor is. Is is huge, um and like, for example, you know, we've, we've had a number of clients that were approaching retirement in the next say, you know, 12, 12 months, say 24 months, and uh, and I'm not talking about even retiring, just retiring the pension funds, for example, and you know, and they're close to the maximum threshold. So at the moment, the maximum pension, uh, at the moment in ireland is 2.15 million or so and it's it's going to increase in increments over time, but let's just call it that for now. And, um, we had a number of clients at that level. So so we just put them into cash, into money, market funds.
Speaker 2:That is no way saying we were prescient about what was happening or what was going to happen with markets. It's just sense of a client. Even if the markets roared ahead, we would have done that because we've hit the target. The risk to the downside at the time was greater than the upside because we're short term. Our time horizon is a year or two. So the odds of success investing on the base of a year or two is around 50%. Right, so sorry. But 60, 70%? But it just doesn't make sense. That's nothing to do with where we nick our finger and stick in the air and say, well, we think market's going to go down. It's just the sense of planning. So you can lick our finger and stick in the air and say, well, we think market's going to go down. It's just a sense of planning. So that's the value of a good advisor. If clients have found themselves in a position where they're close to retiring the pension fund and it's taken a hit, well, there's time to review the advice.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, and it's tough and it's challenging for a lot of people when they're obviously they've been working and saving and investing and doing all the work for years, and then something like that happens.
Speaker 1:So for people that are coming to you, george, who is it that you typically work with, who is that you typically deal with and help, and and what are the things they're coming to you with, first and foremost, that they're looking for? And then how do you help them, kind of like navigate that and work towards, um, what it is you offer?
Speaker 2:them. Okay. So typically, like we, you know, there are plenty of investment firms out there that will kind of you know they try and cater for everything from kind of you know an individual investor who's you know, a PAYE employee and just wants to kind of squirrel away some money for the future, to you know firms that will deal with high net worth individuals and entrepreneurs. Typically that's the market we focus on. I suppose my own background of my career has been in that. So typically we deal with business owners and their families and that's either during the lifetime of the business, where they pass it on to their children, or whether they have an exit, and we typically might deal with it before that and after that. Um, so we kind of see the same kind of people, if you get me, and we kind of see the same kind of issues and same kind of problems and the same kind of solutions. So, um, in lots of cases you know your business owner self-shames. They get bombarded with, you know, offers of advice and lots of friends who are doing different things and there's lots of noise going on in their head and sometimes it can seem a bit overly complicated and they've spent their time focusing on their business. So it's trying to demystify all that for them. And the big thing is trying to protect their capital. You know so, for example, if you've, if you, if we're, applying to sell the business, try to protect their capital in the from inflation over time, because you know they're, they're probably earmarked this money for the next generation. They've made good money over time. And I would always encourage clients to spend as much as they can in retirement and they look at me kind of two heads, but they should, because the stats say people don't spend enough in retirement. And you know actually the real emotional and kind of happiness. I suppose the emotional rewards and happiness comes from experiences and you know so I would say do as much as you can, buy the car, go on the holiday, you know, enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2:And then it's the case of how do they, I suppose, firstly, how do they protect from inflation, how do they allocate their capital appropriately, how can they understand how markets work, how can they understand really how costs work? Because, despite the fact it's a regulated business, there are costs and costs are disclosed, but it's just the manner in how they're disclosed by a lot of providers isn't great and can be, like I say, hidden but not up front and centre, and it's about educating them on that. And then it's a case of how do they pass on their money efficiently. There are a number of tools there's not as many as there was, but there's structures like family partnerships and gifting, and they pass on their money efficiently. There are a number of tools there's not as many as there was, but you know, there's structures like family partnerships and gifting and different reliefs. So it's about structuring that appropriately.
Speaker 2:And then I suppose, look simple things like protecting their children and we've even had, you know, dealing with prenups and stuff like that you wouldn't believe. But uh, yeah, dealing with children, are they? Are they happily married? And you know how all of that stuff like gets a bit personal then. But, um, yeah, so so people, it's a whole myriad of myriad of kind of financial planning yeah, essentially people are looking to you and what you do.
Speaker 1:I suppose they're looking for clarity and they're looking for reliability and somewhere that they can put their money in with a sense of trust and go okay, I know this is being managed properly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in lots of cases we'll meet business owners who typically had a bad experience somewhere and not saying they got bad advice, they probably just went and invested themselves or they went and bought come back to it like Aircom shares, or they bought bank shares. They amassed a lot of bank shares and the quote I used to hear at the time was well, no one involved, quite diversified, because they have AIB, bank of Ireland and Anglo Irish Bank right. So you know, they would have had bad experiences and in a lot of cases they weren't advised. But they've got this, I suppose, scar tissue about investing and they probably need somebody to demystify that for them a bit, to hold their hand, a little sense and put together a structured financial plan.
Speaker 2:It's like let's go back to the sporting energy. Like you know, if your process is solid and your plan is solid, typically the stats on the outcome is quite positive. So if you've got a golfer who's making putts from four feet in consistently and they've taken care of their process, when they arrive on the Sunday in the back nine, you can be confident that they have a high chance of winning. You're never going to win them all, but that's the thing. It's getting the process, the back nine. You know you can be confident that they have a high chance of winning. You're never going to win them all, but that's the thing, is getting the process, the foundation, right.
Speaker 2:If they're reactionary and they're just speculative and they're buying stocks at this level and they're buying different properties, there's no real blueprint or master plan in how they're managing their money with a view to their retirement and with a view to passing it on. That's where it gets messy. So I think that's the real value advice. The investing bit is easy. As I said it's. The value advice is in putting together a solid financial plan yeah, 100 and sticking to it and adhering to it and keep pulling them back towards it and reviewing it and updating as their circumstances may change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it can seem like a. This is something that I only really got into probably over the last five years and really had a study and kind of educate myself on a lot of the concepts, but something that I wish I had have been educated in when I was younger and got started, which is why I'm educating my kids in it, because it's so fundamental to a person actually creating wealth for themselves. But again, we might not understand these processes and fall into it later, but I think even from the business point of view, it allows people. Then, as you said, george, they take care of that and then get on with what it is that they actually love, get on with creating the business and bringing business in. So for George, for people right now that are panicking they're looking at the news, watching the fear mongering, they're doing all that sort of stuff what's the best piece of advice that you could give them now, if they are already invested or if they're thinking about getting invested?
Speaker 2:Well, let's see. First you work with an advisor. I would hope that they've in some way shape or form heard, if they're being advised, that they've heard from their advisor who's kind of put a bit of context around short-term market moves, which will help calm people, put a bit of context around how their investments are highly diversified and the long-term track record of investments. That will also help kind of calm nerves when they're not advised. I would encourage you and it's not a certain problem, to get an advisor. There are even at lower levels. You can get financial advice on investment platforms and stuff like that at relatively reasonable costs. But I don't think DIY investing in the robo-advisors and all this kind of stuff. It's just the stats will show again, because you know, I think there was a study, there's a study from Dalbar US research house and I don't know the exact figures. But long-term market return over time has been, you know, arguably talking about global markets 8% to 10%, right, roughly 9% to 10%, okay, over the long term. But the average investor return where they've had assets allocated has been in the region of like 5% or 4% or 5%. And why? Because, for advice, sometimes the concentrated equity portfolios that miss market trends, hopping in and out, hopping in and out, grabbing the bar of soap heaps getting smaller, all of that kind of stuff, market timing, et cetera. So this is actually true.
Speaker 2:I worked in one of the large Dublin-based well-managed firms back in the noughties and the best-performing clients were actually the dead ones. So a client would pass away and there'd be a whole process around grant of probate, so the portfolio would be frozen and couldn't be touched, traded a whole process around grant of probate. So the the portfolio would be frozen and couldn't be touched, traded, moved around. Oh, with the best will in the world and all that, but it just couldn't. And sometimes you might have a dispute over an estate or something and this could drag on for a couple of years.
Speaker 1:They were the best performing clients there you are and it just goes to show, then just let it sit. Then, if you are invested at the minute and you have got money in the market at the minute, turn off the news and let things settle down. Yeah, yeah, exactly, george. For people that are looking for expert advice and looking to make contact with yourself at this time or maybe invest in the future, where's the best place that they can reach out and find you?
Speaker 2:best is via the website. Make contact with yourself at this time, or maybe invest in the future. Where's the best place that they can reach out and find you Best is by the website. So it's garrisonie or else infogarrisonie.
Speaker 1:Okay, you can get you on LinkedIn as well too. Linkedin as well, yes, thank you, james George. Thank you very much for hopping on and sharing your expertise and some insights. I know that it is a time that people are kind of up the left and they're emotional and reacting a lot of the time. So I think it's good to get grounded and good to hear some expert advice from yourself that they can take, implement and maybe just calm the jets a wee bit.
Speaker 2:absolutely keep the faith yeah, george speak soon thank you, thanks, james cheers.