The Seamus Fox Podcast.
This podcast has been created to share real life experiences from inspiring people in all walks of life, those who have engineered change in their own lives through a shift in thinking and beliefs. I want to share my own journey and have others share theirs so that it can help inspire others to crete the internal changes thats needed to create long lasting life changes.
The Seamus Fox Podcast.
Embracing Change and Growth with Niraj.
Have you ever wondered how personal resilience can shape your professional journey? Join us as Niraj, a celebrated LinkedIn top voice, recounts his transformation from growing up amidst racial discrimination in Northern Ireland to finding success in the bustling environment of London. Niraj offers a deeply personal narrative, reflecting on his early dreams of becoming a rock star and the cultural expectations that initially bound him to traditional career paths. With candor and insight, he shares how a passion for music and sales became the vehicles for his success, highlighting the importance of self-awareness and personal development along the way.
His story is not just about career triumphs but also about navigating the complexities of cultural expectations and personal relationships. Listen as he discusses the challenges of arranged marriages within his community, revealing how character should triumph over superficial criteria in relationships. Through the lens of his own experiences, Niraj provides a unique perspective on balancing personal growth and societal pressures. His journey through a tumultuous divorce reveals the power of resilience, the necessity of supportive relationships, and the impact of returning to personal roots for healing.
As Niraj enters his 50s, he emphasises the importance of health and purpose, sharing how he maintains well-being through deliberate lifestyle choices. His reflections on mortality and the loss of loved ones have sparked a shift in priorities towards meaningful living. By choosing to focus on what truly matters, Niraj encourages us all to pursue a fulfilling life enriched by personal growth and self-improvement. Whether you're curious about the power of mindset shifts or the nuances of cultural expectations, Nirajs journey promises to leave you inspired and motivated to embrace your own path to success.
guys, welcome back to the podcast. I am looking forward to today's guest, mr naraj naraj. Welcome to the podcast shamus. We know each other for a long time on linkedin, so I'm so happy to be having this conversation with you today, thank you same as that, naraj, for people that don't know you and who are listening, and give us a wee bit of a description of who you are, what you're involved in right now.
Speaker 2:Certainly, I am a LinkedIn top voice, the only one in Northern Ireland and the only person that gets a chance to go to LinkedIn's headquarters in London, dublin and, more recently, san Francisco, and I teach people how to sell better on LinkedIn and how to sell better in business.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, Okay, Naresh. So with every guest that I speak to, I always like to get a bit of context in terms of how you've ended up here. So take me right back. Where did you grow up? What were those early inspirations? What was it like as a young Naresh growing up? And where did you grow up and what? Was that environment like.
Speaker 2:Well, I grew up in Northern Ireland in the 1970s 1980s, which was not really the place to be, and, like pretty much everybody, I wanted to escape. I mean pretty much everybody I know did escape. Most came back, because when you have kids it's just easier being around your parents. But I escaped and I managed to stay away for 25 years. I wanted to be somewhere where people didn't judge me by the color of my skin like they do in Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland, even though it has got slightly better over the years, it's still very difficult as a person of color. Unfortunately it shouldn't be, but it is and so I just wanted to go somewhere where color of skin wasn't important and my abilities were more important. And that's why I went to london, because london's a multicultural hub and really, truly nobody cares where you're from.
Speaker 2:They just want you to do good work. So london suited me perfectly and I think that was the inspiration, the driving force. I think we all have some something that drives us, either a purpose bigger than ourselves or some kind of demons. At the age of 18, I wasn't mature enough to have a purpose bigger than me, but I had a lot of demons and I just had a lot of people. I wanted to prove right who had done me wrong, and I wanted to prove to people that I wasn't those vile, disgusting words that you call me. But I'm a better person than that, and that was the driving force behind why I went to London and why I spent 25 years having a career there.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a lot there. I suppose, if you go back into some of that then the rise, like what were those early inspirations, like what did you kind of like in school, what was the stuff that you like to do, what were the things that you were inspired by then, and also what were the challenges then that you seen at that time? Growing up in northern ireland in the 70s and 80s was a challenge in itself, and you were, you were facing like racial discrimination as well too at that time. So, um, can you give me a wee bit more about like what was school, like what we really interested in at that time?
Speaker 2:well, my childhood was split into two parts, so there was primary school and there was grammar school. Primary school was probably the happiest time of my life, because nobody cares about the color of your skin. They really don't. And this is back in the days when you didn't have two parents working and your mom was able to pick you up from school and take it after school clubs. So every day after school I was playing football with the beavers. I was, you know, swimming, I was doing some kind of physical sport which is brilliant, and I was a top goal scorer in my school.
Speaker 2:I'm from primary, I was a captain of the beavers and then the Cub Scouts and life was just perfect. I was a straight-A student. I was the one people came to when the headmaster was selling something new around the school. They would introduce them to me teachers like me. I just thought life was fantastic. And then I went to grammar school and it was a complete 360. First of all, I went to Balmain Academy, which was a fantastic school. The problem with Balmain Academy was was a fantastic school. The problem with Balmain Academy was when you're brilliant and a wee town like Antrim and you go and be just kind of mediocre at a school like Balmain Academy.
Speaker 2:It was kind of shocking At the age of 11 because I was a summer child, so I was very young. You don't really have the emotional intelligence or the maturity or the ability to handle that. It really is a shock to spend your entire life doing being pretty amazing and then realize you're just average and, in all fairness, because I was an 11 year old kid and all of a sudden I'm going through puberty too early, I'm getting a mustache at the age of 12, you know I'm discovering girls. My whole life just became, but, honest to god, chasing girls and playing music. That's all I cared about. I mean, that's all I cared about at 12. It's all I cared about at 13. It's all I cared about pretty much until I was 25.
Speaker 2:I mean, it wasn't about not being mature enough and not changing. That's just what made me happy girls and playing music. Um, and music became my driving Force. Uh, to those listening on the podcast now you can't see what I'm about to do, but I'm taking my phone, removing airplane mode just for a second. And to those of you who are watching visually, you will see this, and it is an 18 year old picture of me when I tried to be a rock star. So everybody went to university or college or had an apprenticeship after school Me. I went and got some a demo tape done, uh, recorded loads of songs because I wanted to be the first indian bon jovi.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing when you're young, unfortunately, and even in your 20s as well, in 30s you mistakenly believe that if I become rich and successful, all my problems will go away. I sadly learned that when I became successful in sales later on in life. That's not the case, but unfortunately that's what you're taught to believe, and I really wish somebody had sat down with me or given me a book or something that said look, just work on yourself, make yourself a better person, give to others, help others, don't worry about other people. Think. But nobody did that. So I was a constant emotional wreck and I was always reacting and overreacting to everything as a teenager, because it was nobody kind of who had my back.
Speaker 2:My parents were indian immigrants, so their attitude was look, just shut up and work. That was my father's solution to every problem. Shut up, look, just shut up and work. That was my father's solution to every problem. Shut up and work. Shut up and work, work harder, work harder. You know, he didn't care about racism or abilities, I don't care, work, I work them now when you're an adult, out working will help you deal with a lot of problems in life. When you're a teenager, it just doesn't.
Speaker 2:You just don't have the emotional ability to cope with these things yeah my childhood and my 20s were very difficult because there was no guidance, there was no support, there was nobody helping me and I was always thinking differently to other people. I never understood the point of high school. I didn't understand why we had to learn these facts and figures, for I didn't understand what good it was in life. Earlier on this year I realized that was autism. But nobody knew what autism was back then. They just thought I was difficult.
Speaker 2:That was a label they gave you when you were young. So there's a lot of stuff going on in my life which frustrated me, and I hated being told what to do all the time by people who I didn't think were very intelligent yeah, there's a lot of similarities.
Speaker 1:That just doesn't get school at all. Just didn't understand it. Still don't stay. Um, I couldn't with the leaf, okay, so for you then at that time, naraj, going through grammar school, you're going through those challenges and stuff. Have you set out on a path? Right, I just want to be involved in music. How did that end up taking you to london? What was the? What was the next steps?
Speaker 2:well, what I did was I realized I needed a few thousand pounds to go into recording studio, hire musicians, get record producers. So I started working at 16 in what used to be called Stewart's I think it was bought by Tesco's, the supermarket.
Speaker 2:And I worked at God. It was 2.20, 2.25 an hour. And then I got promoted to night shift, and only because I paid so much more. And back in those days many shops weren't open on Sundays yet, so you get paid double time on Sundays. So I worked Sundays, I worked night shift. I did this for about three years and at 18, everybody went to college, university.
Speaker 2:I stayed behind and I spent a year working solid and I managed to save up quite a bit of money About every penny I spent in the studio On musicians and backing singers, demo tapes, and I sent it all off to London. I told my parents I'm off to London because you don't get me, you don't understand me, I hate being Indian. I don't want to be around strict people. I don't like being told what to do. I'm a man. I just left home. Mum was devastated, dad was just angry, but I just thought you, you know, I'm going to prove you all wrong and next time you see me I'll be super rich. And I went to london and it was the biggest shock in the world, because in london your neighbors aren't nosy. They don't talk to you and have small chat, small talk. They just ignore you.
Speaker 2:Everybody ignores you, um, and you're just a nobody. And I would sell my demo tapes to epic and polygram and warn Warner Brothers and all these companies. And they either didn't get back to you or they said you're not what we're looking for and I would ring them up saying what do you mean?
Speaker 2:he goes oh, we haven't got time to talk to you and nobody would talk to me. Nobody again. Nobody would talk to me, nobody would guide me, nobody would advise me and I just became very depressed and I would apply for jobs, but because I had no degree, I couldn't find work. Nobody would hire me. So I again, again.
Speaker 2:You see a lot of similar themes here lack of guidance, lack of emotional intelligence, lack of mentoring, lack of support, not reading books, no self-awareness, and I spent the next year and a half on the dole, which is just the worst experience you can have, because you are the lowest level of society and that's how people treat you. And I would go for not only weeks, shameless, but sometimes months, without speaking to a human being, which is very damaging for your mental health, very damaging for your physical health, because you're carrying around trauma and you're just depressed all the time. And on any rare occasion a human being will speak to you, you cling on to it for dear life and you become desperate, thinking wow, I've made a friend. I mean, that's how bad it was. And I only got out of that because after a year and a half of ignoring my father, he flew over to see me. I said right, this is embarrassing.
Speaker 2:I'm a doctor, you're living in benefits. This, this place smells. You're wearing the same clothes all the time. How can you live in poverty? I said I'd rather live in poverty than be told what to do. He goes okay, you're being immature. He sat me down and gave me a reality check, saying look, you can't keep feeling sorry for yourself. You will never achieve anything like this. You've got to find work. So we got a CV. He hired someone, I think paid me 20 pounds or something back in those days 20 pounds to redo my cv, and I sent my cv out to like 50 people and the only people who would hire me with no qualifications were companies who needed sales people and that was shameless.
Speaker 2:That was literally how I got started in seals. Every single company said no. Then finally, one company went soft face to face and the receptionist was from Armat and she felt sorry for me and she introduced me to the head of HR on the Friday and the Monday I started working for them. So that's a long, long story of how I got my first job in sales.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you think that, like just listening to your father flying over and your doc, your followers the doctor was there was there a bit of a rebellion from yourself in the rise at that time? It was like in a rebellion against what might have been expected of you in terms of the career and it's like, no, I'm doing music, I'm doing my own thing, I'm going to london, I'm being the own person. Was there? Was there that playing out between you and your father at that time?
Speaker 2:it was because the indian community in northern ireland was very small back then. It's about 500 people. Everybody knew each other and back then that generation of immigrants similar to the generation of immigrants today, but then it was more strict was like you must become a doctor, you must become a lawyer or a pharmacist. Those are your options in life, okay, and you'll become very successful doing that. That was back in the days when people believed you must have a job for life, which of course doesn't exist anymore. But that's what they wanted. And everybody in the in the community was like well, my son's driving a mercedes, my son's gone to cambridge, my son's gone to oxford, one went to harvard and my parents are just hanging their head and she and my son's unemployed. He wants to be a rock star. My parents started them laughing stock of the community really, so for them it was humiliating and I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:It was humiliating for them, but I didn't understand school. I didn't get the point of school. I didn't understand why you had to study all the time. I wasn't against hard work, I just found school boring. It wasn't you know. As an adult, now in my 50s, I can say unfortunately, school, apart from teaching the wrong thing all the time, it's not for everybody. It really isn't yeah, a lot of people who just school is not relevant to them. You can learn everything in primary school read, write, do math.
Speaker 2:That's it high school and grammar school was a complete waste of time yeah I'm taught money. You're not taught self-awareness. You're not taught personal development. You're not taught the power of charity, work and giving and helping others. You're taught pretty much nothing about money. Um I I just left school with no life skills and I'm thrown into the real world in london. I just can't cope with.
Speaker 2:Everything was overwhelming I was an introvert for a very long time and really struggled with life for a very long time. Um, so, yeah, there was a lot of rebellion on my part, definitely from my father. Yeah, you know, looking back now, of course, as a grown person, I felt bad for him. I really do feel bad, and my mother went through a lot with all her kids, but especially with me yeah, I get it 100 about school.
Speaker 1:um, I think that just tries to get everybody to fit in their box and we don't fit in that box and there's something wrong with you and I was the same. It just didn't find anything inspiring, and I did then in later years. So, okay, you transition into sales in their eyes. So, taking into consideration that there was nothing in school that you found inspiring, nothing that you really wanted to learn, what was it that you got in sales that really kind of clicked for you, that you really enjoyed?
Speaker 2:Well, the great thing about sales is, the better you do, the more money they pay you, and I like that. I'm a great believer if you do good work in life, you get rewarded for it. So I started off on a very low salary. It was £10,000 pound a year, which barely covers your rent in London. You know, even in 1994 it barely covered rent in London. But the fact was, the more I sold, the more commission I got. So I'll be earning Commission which meant I can go out and buy clothes because, bearing in mind, you spend a year and a half the door, you have nothing. So you're kind of starting from the beginning. Almost some buying clothes for myself, I'm buying a watch, I'm buying a bit of self-respect. I'm able to eat right now and again, you know, I'm gonna have a bit of savings. It was lovely to be able to just be my own independent person the more successful.
Speaker 2:I became the nicer the publisher of the magazines were to me. So I worked this beast of a company called centaur. They owned about 50 business to business magazines and in the 1980s and 1990s they were one of the biggest publishing companies in london and everybody wanted to work with them. And I just kept rising through the ranks, through the ranks, through the ranks in sales, because I just wanted to earn more money and by doing that I was able to save up enough money and get a house, which again I couldn't even do probably nowadays, but you know, 30 years ago you could. And that's the beauty of sales, you can do really well. So when I say I bought a house, I mean I got a deposit in the house, just to be clear. But you know, that was wonderful and you kept getting rewarded and rewarded. And the publisher was great to me.
Speaker 2:But she was a terrified person and every time she'd walk into the office the office went quiet and people were genuinely scared of her. And I went into her office one day. She missed. I said Annie, can I have a moment please? I was very nervous. I said look, you're really nice to me but everybody else is scared of you. Can I ask why you're nice to me? I don't want to cause any problems, I'm sorry what upset you, but why are you nice to me? For I don't understand. I figured she just felt sorry for me because I had no friends.
Speaker 2:And she says to me you don't gossip, you make me a lot of money and you work harder than anybody else in this office. You keep doing that. You'll do well now and I'll tell you what it was. Fantastic advice, not just then, but even now. You know I'm working in this building. For those of you on video, I got these rented offices and you know there are people like myself who work really hard all day and do good work. You know there's people who come in and they'll gossip, yeah, and they'll complain and they'll whine. And the same people who are the people who never invest themselves ever. They only want free stuff day and night. People who five years from now will not exist anymore as businesses or will just give up and feel.
Speaker 1:And there's people like me who work really hard, don't gossip and invest very heavily in themselves and pay lots of money for good coaches, good conferences, good books, because we want to go somewhere in life 100 and I totally agree and I think that, no matter who you are, where you are, what you're doing, if you bring value to any business, another person is going to value that and the more value you bring, the more value, the more valuable you're going to become. It's as simple as that. What were the? What were the things that you were learning then and skills in sales at the start? What are the things that for people that are listening on maybe starting out in their career in sales or maybe starting to grow a business what were the skill sets at the start that you learned that you were able to just take in the action straight away and start to apply and grow from.
Speaker 2:The reason I did well in sales is we don't have much in life and you're a bit naive. It's amazing what you can achieve really, really and truly. And so I just went out there and I worked harder than other people, because a lot of people in London that are in my office shared a room with a partner, so life was slightly easier for them. I didn't have a partner. I had to pay for everything myself, so I had to outwork people because I had less. So outworking in the modern world it's important, but 30 years ago it was really important. But I still do believe that people are working eight hours a day. You should be working 10. I mean, that's just for me, it's common sense as well. And if you look a lot of people I look up to in life and admire, or even some of the famous biographies you read of sports stars or famous actors, they all say I've worked people. I've worked people. I mean the two biggest movie stars in the last 20 years Will Smith, tom, tom Cruise what do they do? They outwork people.
Speaker 2:They get a burger they work on. You know they have exceptionally good habits. Let's not talk about their personal lives, but I'm just talking success in their fields. They've said this many times over we outwork people. So outworking people, being resilient, alert, become resilient. Getting rewarded for your work that's a big thing for me. When I was younger, I wanted to be rewarded financially. Now, as I'm older, I want to be rewarded more emotionally. So when you get to my age, it's more about making a difference to somebody's life, or making a difference to somebody's business, or making a difference to somebody's confidence. That's the high I get nowadays. The paycheck or the money you get is wonderful, but it's not your main reason for doing it. So you can make a difference to somebody else. Um, but when I was younger, it was the financial reward rather than the emotional reward yeah and those things kept me above average.
Speaker 2:I wasn't brilliant, I was just above average. And it was only when, 15 years later, I became a manager and I got a coach for the first time. That was when my career excelled, seamus. I mean, I went through the roof, because when you have a coach working with you and a good coach who gets you, you can go to places you cannot even begin to imagine. And I went from being above average to being exceptional, to winning president clubs, to being the top salesperson, to earning as much commission as a basic check, I mean to making a difference to other people. And the last five years of my career were pretty incredible, I gotta say.
Speaker 1:Aidan McCullen. What were the things, then, that you tapped into as a coach? What were the things that he showed you that you weren't aware of within yourself at that time?
Speaker 2:there, ash, the coach said to me when he met me you know you spend a lot of time blaming other people for your problems. You blame the government. I just had an arranged marriage. So having an arranged marriage, by the way, it's not something I recommend to anybody. And so I was struggling with my partner and I was. You know, my relationship with my father wasn't great. He goes. You blame a lot of people for your problems. You want to be successful in life. You take 100% responsibility yourself. That was a new concept to me Because, again, nobody ever told me you have to do that. I see people today with self awareness. All I want to do is say look, would you please listen to what I have to say? Stop following these dumbasses on social media who promised to make you millionaire. Stop following these idiots who promised to make you successful, because most of them are lying, because that's how they've been taught. Please listen to someone like me who has your best interest at heart and will guide you in the right direction, but sadly, most people don't do that.
Speaker 2:Most people make choices in life and lack self-awareness and I know this because I was that person for a very long time. I'd have listened to a 20-year-old bullshit artist rather than a successful man in his 50s who really had a good life. Because, when you're young, you're attracted to flash stupid things, and even today's younger generation are exactly like that. Seamus hasn't changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you've got different value systems as opposed to different ages. You're interested in different things at different times, um, and I always think to myself going if I hadn't known a lot of the stuff that I knew that I know now, if I hadn't known that back then but again, I wouldn't have made the messes and I wouldn't have made the the life and the challenges that came along in order for me to actually grow and learn that stuff. Okay, narash, so you're progressing through the ranks in terms of what you're doing in sales in London. What was the big differences, then, that you've seen in career work, business sales in London in comparison to here in Northern Ireland? What are some of the differences that you see and have seen in the past?
Speaker 2:Well, in London people think much bigger. They don't look at things as a cost. They look at it as an investment. In Northern Ireland, majority of people look at things how much is this going to cost me? Is this cheap? Can you do it cheaper? Can you do it free and I'll be very grateful? Can you do it free and I be very grateful? Can you do it free and I'll give you exposure which most often can't. If you do it free, I'll be very grateful. There's a real cheap mentality in Northern Ireland, almost like a badge of honour. Let's do something as cheaply as we possibly can they think they have won without realising they're losing horribly doing that.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of small playing in Northern Ireland. In London people think big. There's small playing in Northern Ireland. In London people think big. There's no limits In Northern Ireland. So many people put limits on themselves and how far they can go, and I don't believe in limits at all. You can achieve whatever you want in life if you're really good at it. Of course I don't believe anybody can achieve anything. Of course I think that's a very broad statement to make. But I think when you learn what your skills are in life and you really refine those skills and work on them daily and surround yourself with good people, I think it can go quite far in life yeah, 100 um, and I get that mentality as well too, and how different it can be in different places.
Speaker 1:I coach um people in the states, and their mindset is just kind of completely different than so. The way they think about things is completely different in terms of my own business in year three.
Speaker 2:So the first few years america ignored me completely. Then I became a top voice in sales by linkedin. That really gave me credibility. And then I got a salesforce influencer of the year award and all those I think a combination of those two and having a second and third book and then retaining my linkedin top voice of the year award and going to being invited to linkedin's offices. Then all of a sudden americans started taking me seriously and sort of talking to me and doing business with me and then working with them.
Speaker 2:There's such a big difference. They will literally invest. You know, if somebody in in the uk will invest £2,000 to £3,000 a year in themselves, somebody in America will do £8,000 to £10,000 in comparison, which is about $13,000 to $16,000. You know they really do invest themselves. They go to mastermind groups. They will fly across the country. They go to conferences. I knew somebody recently based on the West Coast. He flew to Florida for a mastermind group. I'm like, like dude, that must have taken you several hours, because now it was worth the people I was surrounding myself with how much you paying for this mastermind group.
Speaker 2:Oh, twenty thousand dollars, seriously, you know. But for him he makes three hundred thousand dollars a year. That makes sense, you? Know yes it's fascinating that I was in america last month as well for a week on business in san francisco. Just the conversations I had with people I realized even I'm still playing too small, I have to go bigger, you know of course, 100 percent.
Speaker 1:Um, and that's what I was over in nashville at the start of this year, start of the summer, um, and you get that. You can kind of get how people think and it's good to just expose yourself to different ways of thinking and different mentalities and getting yourself into the right environment will have a massive influence on you. 100. What were the first books then you started to read in the rise. That had a big impact on you, maybe around sales or around mindset and human behavior, that you read it and it was like I've never heard that before, I haven't thought that way before, and that you took something from it and started to implement it into your life and business well, it's interesting when I tell you the best sales books to read.
Speaker 2:They're not often sales books, so there are certain books now I would recommend, but back then it was more about the compound effect by Darren Hardy, just having good, consistent habits every day build up over time and not a lot of people realize that, but they do make a difference. I mean, you know James Clear made it huge with Atomic Habits, which is like almost a continuation of Compound Effect how to win friends and influence people especially if you're growing a business or being a manager, you have to get people.
Speaker 2:So many managers I see hate their staff and then wonder why they can't perform well. You know you have to understand people and you have to understand people who are different to you people. And you have to understand people who are different to you. And you have to understand when people disagree with you. You don't just turn against them and think they're terrible. You have to understand why they're thinking that way. Is it fear? Is it insecurity? Is it because they're lazy? You know there's so many reasons why, but it's your job as a manager to understand them. And how to win friends and influence people is still after goodness, I don't know 80, 90 years, one of the most important books you can read yeah psychology of selling by brian tracy.
Speaker 2:I like brian tracy because he's so simple. Again, I like simple. I've tried reading books like the seven habits of highly effective people think and grow rich. They are horrible books to read, I think. Why people keep recommending them for there I mean Seven Habits of Highly Effective People took forever to get through because it's not easy. Think and Grow Rich I end up listening to. I failed twice to read it so I listened to it on audio, which is better, and I got it more on audio, but still it was difficult. I mean, you know, it's quite difficult. My brain doesn't work that way. My brain likes simplicity that way. My brain likes simplicity, it likes action points, which is why zig, ziglar, brian tracy, jim rowan just appealed to me so much because, yeah, easy, you know, I love jim rowan.
Speaker 1:I loved his quote they talked about in sales, whatever you lack in skills, you make up in numbers. And it was so, so important like, just keep going at the start. Whatever you lack in skills, make up in numbers. Whatever you lack in skills, make up in numbers. Okay, can you share a time, then the rise, where a failure, a perceived failure, played a key role in your development in your career?
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably the biggest failure of my life was my divorce. So I had an arranged marriage I mentioned earlier, and we managed to stay together for 21 years, which I think is quite incredible, considering we didn't know each other really, you know. And my wife came to this country as an immigrant, 18 years old, and, like many immigrants, had this relentless work mentality and turned out to be a tremendous beauty therapist and opened up her own business. No family help, just to make it very clear to everybody, she did this by herself. Yes, I helped with the sales and marketing, but she was the brains behind it. She worked seven days a week. She's an absolute workaholic, remarkable woman, and so I started having great success in my career. She was having great success in our career.
Speaker 2:We had a daughter we absolutely loved and adored and lived in a lovely house and once our daughter went to university we realized the marriage was just didn't work and we tried to keep it together and couldn't, and we were both very unhappy and so I went and saw a solicitor for advice and just hell broke loose and the next year and a half was pretty unbearable. I mean, I had suffered pain I never knew it was imaginable. And when we ended up getting divorced two months later afterwards lockdown happened and I spent four months alone without seeing anybody, without talking to anybody, having no friendship. I mean lockdown was tough for many people but, by yourself.
Speaker 2:It was brutal and I don't drink, I don't't do drugs, I'm not an abusive person, so I ate my feelings and was then diagnosed obese and my parents said right, you cannot be obese, you're almost 50 years old, you better come, put everything in storage, come back home right now. And they were very strict about that and I'm at an age now I listen to my parents. I did as a kid, but as an adult I did and in all fairness, I was grateful to them because in lockdown I had no money and I was living off, bounce back loans and credit cards, and so I moved back home and I spent the next year of my life rebuilding myself which, by the way, as a man in your late 40s is unbelievably difficult. I was living with my parents in the small, awful working class town I grew up with, where still to this day there are protestant areas and still to this day there are catholic only areas. I mean, it's just such a divided time driven by so many bad things that are happening still.
Speaker 2:They don't get talked about as much but still happen. Um, and I thought my god, I feel so horribly in life. What a complete failure. It's embarrassing. I had this great career in London. I have to live my parents because I can't cope with life, and that was a tremendous failure on so many levels. But the great success that came out of it was I rebuilt myself. So first of all, I went to therapy for the first time, which I find to be a blessing.
Speaker 2:My father said you can live in this house, but you have to have certain conditions. You must go to the gym every day and lose weight. So he got me a gym membership. You must read these books I have bought for you on Stoicism, buddha and Philosophy, which changed my worldview on things, because you need to learn about Stoicism and Philosophy and Buddha. And second of all, you have to sit with the family every night and have dinner. Apart from that, you do whatever you want, but those are non-negotiables and it shows that even when you get old in life, it's important to have boundaries in place and your father sounds like a wise man very wise man and I know you know what I look back.
Speaker 2:Not at the time I was very embarrassed in life, but now, a few years later, I've rebuilt my life. I've had success. I've become a better human being. I will never have the money I used to have when I was working in London, and that's absolutely fine, because I'm happier and I have more purpose in life and I wake up every day positive and I'm just a happy individual. The world needs more happier people. It really does. It needs more people that have a sense of purpose. It needs more people who generally want to do good things and don't see money as their main driving force.
Speaker 2:And I am very lucky because now, a few years later, I've met many people Seamus similar position to me. They got really hurt, battling a divorce or life mistreated them in really bad ways. But they don't have fathers who are alive anymore. A lot of them have moms who are alcoholics. A lot of them have moms who are alcoholics. A lot of them live with a brother who turned out to be a drug addict. You know so many people I've seen over the years who went through what I went through, didn't have family support and they're a walking disaster. They have turned to alcohol because they can't cope. They take various prescription drugs because they just don't. They can't deal with life and I realized I actually got very lucky in something that I thought was the worst thing could have happened to me turned out to be the best thing that could ever have happened to me fantastic.
Speaker 1:Um. Can you elaborate a wee bit more on for someone like me who doesn't understand the culture, what's that like? Going into an arranged marriage? What are you thinking? What are you fearing? What's going on in your head? Are you pushing against it? No, I can't do this. Are you allowed to do that? Can you explain a wee bit more for someone like me and, I'm sure, a whole lot of other people that don't understand that culture, what's that like for you, niraj, at that time?
Speaker 2:I pushed against an arranged marriage for a long time because for me it's the dumbest idea in the world Two strangers meeting how's that going to work? But here's the thing in the modern day world, people now believe it or not. Almost I think it's like 90% of people meet through dating apps, which is a shockingly high number. You know churches, I think, are like 2%, families like 3%, work is like 2% it's really small and dating apps how people meet.
Speaker 2:But when I was dating, there were no dating apps. And when I was dating and I told people I was at dating agency at work, they all made fun of me and said oh my god, you're so desperate a dating agency, how desperate are you? So I was lonely. I live in London by myself for seven years. That is a very long time to be alone. It's a very long time to have no love in your life and I wanted someone to share my life with. That was it. And I just reached the point. I thought you know what? Look at my father and all his friends. They had arranged marriages. They all seem to be happy. They all have money. Those generation of Indian men all walk around with wads of cash in their pockets. Know, those generation of Indian men all walk around with wads of cash in their pockets. They all drive Mercedes or BMWs. Maybe they know what they're doing and I don't. And that was it. I just kind of figured things aren't working out for me. Maybe they're doing it the right way, and and that was it.
Speaker 2:So you sit in a room with somebody and they ask you this stupidest questions. There's actually a very good business trick you should learn from online dating, from arranged marriages sorry so arranged marriages. The first thing they ask you is how much money do you earn, which is a dumb question. The second question they ask is you know how much savings do you have? What car do you drive? What properties do you own? Every father and every brother I met asked me the same dumb question. Not one person said to me will you be loyal to my daughter? Not one. And in business, when you ask dumb questions, you get dumb results. When you ask good questions, you get good results. So it's actually a very interesting comparison there.
Speaker 2:I remember once in England I had an argument with some man. I said to him why haven't you asked me about being loyal to your daughter? And loving your daughter Isn't that important to you? He says you've got to have money. I said no, I have to be a good guy. There's lots of Indian men with money. They will treat her like shit and I just got really angry with the guy and he complained to my parents. My parents thought, okay, we better get someone from India. And that's what happened.
Speaker 2:I went to Delhi 1997 Christmas Day. I flew there partly to escape life in London I met a woman. She was I was 25 and mature, she was 18, very mature, and she was unbelievably attractive. And I said to her you know, will you be loyal to me? And she went yeah. I said, Well, you don't have kids? She went yeah. I said Do you like the Simpsons? She went yeah. I'm like it was so unromantic. I mean, I was pathetic. I just didn't even know what I was doing, but that's just how it happened. And four days later, 600 strangers turned up at my wedding and I think at that moment I freaked out thinking what have I done? Oh, jesus christ, what the heck, because this is for life. I don't realize what you've done until the day of the wedding. And you see it 600 people at your wedding, and it was just so scary.
Speaker 1:I'd say so, man, For you and rise. What's one big belief that you have overcome or had to change within yourself to do what you do?
Speaker 2:do what you do, being comfortable in your own skin and being happy with yourself. It's not what many people are. I believe that's very important in life. But I'm going to add something to that, because it's very important to be comfortable in your own skin and be happy with life while also trying to raise your standards and be a better person. It's very important. I'm a coach, so I have to mention the second part. A lot people get comfortable and become lazy and mediocre, so I would never encourage that. But I think really getting to know myself and love myself, especially as a man, women are great because women are regular forming friendships, other women or sometimes other men, but they're very good women at socializing.
Speaker 2:Men are terrible at it and instead of dealing with our problems through therapy or talking, we deal with through drugs and porn, which will damage and screw you up so badly and so many levels. And it's just, you know, learning to love myself and look in the mirror and just be proud of myself every day.
Speaker 2:It's a huge deal and it took long to me decades to get there yeah but I think that when I come across to other people, they always talk about how calming I am and how supportive and kind I am, which, for me, is the greatest compliment you can give me, because that's how I want to come across. I do not want to come across like a lot of coaches am and how supportive and kind I am, which, for me, is the greatest compliment you can give me, because that's that's how I want to come across. I do not want to come across like a lot of coaches and gurus do out there, which is very passive, aggressive and very over the top. I never want to be that person, so I work on myself consistently to make sure I am never that person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just even create more resistance doing that. So it's people always injecting their values and expecting other people to be like them and like the same things as them. And you see that in the coaching industry across the board, because people don't understand maybe human behavior at that level and I think there's a lot of people pushing things on people. Okay, and I can hear you when you say that as well to Nouraj I'm 43, you'll be 44 now to start the next year and finally kind of getting into my 40s, at that age where you're able to sit with yourself a wee bit better, able to sit with yourself and be comfortable not comfortable as in right I'm not going to progress towards my goals and vision but comfortable with where you're at emotionally within yourself, because you, like me, has probably done a lot of work on yourself throughout those years, so you would have collapsed a lot of those judgments and shifted a lot of those beliefs and you get to that point where you're just you feel better within your own skin, as you said it's so important to.
Speaker 2:You know, I think there was something I read once, a quote that the problem with most men is they can't spend 30 minutes in quiet by themselves. I think that's such a great quote. And now, with today's addiction to mobile phones, you know, I have a daughter who's 24 and two stepdaughters and they sleep with their bloody phones at night. I mean, they go to bed with their phones. It goes everywhere with them and I find that shocking. And it's not just a generational thing.
Speaker 2:I know that addiction to your phone is dangerous and being able to sit in a room without a phone is so important. I don't like the phones being used. To put your phone on silent, please, for 20 minutes. I get groans and complaints, but you know what that's. My parents do with me and it's so important. When I have meetings, phone is off. My phone is currently off right now for the last hour, and as soon as this meeting finishes, I'm going to go for a walk and get a cup of coffee and clear my head for five minutes. I'm not going to immediately look at my phone to see oh my God, has anybody contacted me? You have to take such good care of your brain and being able to sit with yourself for half an hour 40 minutes without using technology is actually one of life's great blessings that most people don't understand 100.
Speaker 1:It's like disconnect and reconnect with yourself um, and I hear you have a teenage daughter um. We have those fights. So you get it, yeah, the rise. What do you do then on a daily basis in terms of like certain principles, that you have, certain habits? Do you have that kind of keep you in a good, even kill?
Speaker 2:More than morning routine. I'm like a rock star. Afternoons I struggle a bit. By morning I'm a rock star. So I wake up, do not look at my phone, I turn the alarm off and that's it. My phone stays there and then I spend a moment in gratitude and Then, as soon as I start shaving, brushing my teeth my morning routine I'm listening to a podcast, something inspirational, and then I immediately make a soy flat white and go for a walk in nature for half an hour. Usually it's by the beach in port rush or port stuart. I'm very lucky to live 10 minutes drive from there. Sometimes I just go for a walk down time, but I do try to like be by the beach or other forest if possible Sometimes.
Speaker 2:I just go for a walk downtown, but I do try to like be by the beach or other forest if possible. And again, not looking at my phone, doing affirmations to myself On any occasion any joggers pass by or people walking dogs. A few of them have mentioned my partner. I saw your boyfriend at Nairnatch. He was talking to himself really loudly and saying how amazing he is. But that's what I do. I do affirmations in the morning and I do it loudly because you do it quietly, it doesn't make a difference, you do it loudly, it really doesn't make a difference. Um, and I get back home and I spend half an hour reading personal development, stoicism, mindset and then at eight o'clock, quarter past eight, I will check my emails. So I'm up for at least two hours in the morning and that is one of the best habits I have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You get to spend time with yourself just without any other information or interaction from anybody else.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So last question there how do you, in comparison to where you were before, how do you know, define success for you?
Speaker 2:Success, certainly when you get to your 50s, is very different. Success is about giving to others and success is about those around you being in good health, and success is myself having good health now.
Speaker 2:For those of you listening, I'm a big guy not as big as I used to be, thankfully, when I was not well. So I do love my chocolate, my cake. It's no doubt about it. You look on the video, you can tell. But here's the thing I take fresh fruit every day. I take vegetables every day.
Speaker 2:This orange drink I currently have is a brain drink, which is very expensive, helps cognitive functions, you know. I take my multivitamins, my spray, you know this. I'm going to get a soy of flat white and get an all greens drink which will keep me going for a few hours. So you know my purpose is about helping others.
Speaker 2:But also I have to take care of me because in your 50s about several people I've been to school with in the last year have died from alcohol-related illnesses in most cases or, tragically, once or twice, from cancer, breast cancer and so when you get to your 50s you become very aware of your age and your mortality. And also almost everybody I know no longer has a father, which is terrifying. Mine's just about hanging in there, but it's kind kind of scary. So you look at life very differently and you put purpose first, giving first your health first. You don't get involved in nonsense. Small things like somebody driving stupidly in traffic doesn't bother me, it really doesn't. I don't get upset about the small things in life and I really preserve my energy for what matters.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. I really enjoyed this conversation. A lot of golden nuggets on there, a lot of value on there For people who are interested in knowing more about you and what you do. Where's the best place to get you?
Speaker 2:Best place to get me is nirajkapurcom N-I-R-A-J-K-A-P-U-Rcom, or follow me on LinkedIn. In fact, even better, send me a personalized invite on LinkedIn and tell me you listened to this podcast. That would be amazing.
Speaker 1:Fantastic Narayans. Thanks very much, man.
Speaker 2:Pleasure. Lovely seeing you, Seamus.
Speaker 1:Likewise.