The Seamus Fox Podcast.
This podcast has been created to share real life experiences from inspiring people in all walks of life, those who have engineered change in their own lives through a shift in thinking and beliefs. I want to share my own journey and have others share theirs so that it can help inspire others to crete the internal changes thats needed to create long lasting life changes.
The Seamus Fox Podcast.
Andy Mackin's Blueprint for Success
Andy Mackin's journey from the Irish Navy to successful entrepreneurship is an inspiring tale of resilience and transformation. Growing up as the eldest of eight children in Dundalk, Andy faced a challenging economic environment but found solace in sports, particularly soccer. Although his soccer dreams in England didn’t materialize, they set him on a path to becoming an electrician in the Navy, where he honed invaluable skills in teamwork and discipline. In our conversation, Andy shares how these experiences laid the groundwork for his easy-going nature and entrepreneurial success.
Navigating the uncharted waters of business, Andy's story highlights the importance of adaptability and seizing opportunities. His transition from the structured life in the Navy to the dynamic world of entrepreneurship was marked by early uncertainties and the significance of setting ambitious goals. From establishing Mackin Consultancy to expanding into Mackin Talent, Andy’s journey underscores the crucial role of social skills in business and the power of embracing unexpected opportunities. A chance encounter with a former colleague led to transformative projects with multinational companies, demonstrating the remarkable growth that can occur when one is open to new possibilities.
Andy also delves into the personal habits that have enhanced his leadership and productivity, such as waking up earlier and fostering a disciplined lifestyle. He reflects on the responsibility of hiring employees and the growth that comes from navigating financial crises like the one in 2009. Sharing insights from his book-writing experience, Andy discusses the importance of presenting unique perspectives and engaging with like-minded individuals. His story is a testament to the transformative impact of taking risks and the influence of personal wellness on professional success, all while inspiring listeners to appreciate the interconnectedness of life experiences in shaping business growth.
Hey guys, so welcome back to the podcast. I am looking forward to this morning's conversation. This morning's guest I have Mr Andy Mackin. On Andy, welcome to the podcast. Glad to be on, seamus. So me and Andy kind of got to briefly meet at an event in Cork that we were both speaking at and we connected on LinkedIn after and wanted to bring Andy on because he has a fantastic business and a lot of insights and knowledge to share. So I appreciate you coming on to the podcast, andy. But for where I like to start, all the time is here. First and foremost, maybe if you give us a wee bit of an explanation of who you are, what you do, and then we can, we can go from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. So Andy Mackett is my name. Well, andrew, actually Andy to all my friends, andrew to my mother, seamus, and it's usually when I've done something wrong. I hailed from Dundalk, originally eldest of 8. Yeah, pretty much childhood in Dundalk up until kind of secondary school didn't finish.
Speaker 2:My leaving went off to England. After a few failed attempts of trying to get an apprenticeship, I went over on a soccer trial that and went off to England. After a few failed attempts at trying to get an apprenticeship, I went over on a soccer trial that failed. So I ended up getting a job as a silver service waiter in the Grand Hotel in Torquay in 1985. And I got a call for the Irish Naval Service later that year and I ended up joining in November 85. And I served for 21 years in the Irish Navy as an electrician and about a year and a half before I left. And I served for 21 years in the Irish Navy as an electrician and about a year and a half before I left I went out on my own and started my own business as a health and safety consultant.
Speaker 2:I'd kind of gone back in college by the time. I was involved with PD4 in the Defence Forces. So I was at national level. I was involved with health and safety. So I had no qualification at the time and I said probably a good thing to have. So I went back to college when I did that and then kind of liked it. So I said that maybe was something I was going to do when I left. So then I founded Mackin Consultancy, which is an environmental, health and safety consultancy and training business, and in 2014, we founded Mackin Talent, which is a global recruitment business, and that's brought us up to today.
Speaker 1:That's the short version. Fantastic, I know for a fact. There's a lot to unpack on there, so let's take it back again then. Andy, what was it like then as a young andy growing up in dundalk as the oldest of eight? What were those early challenges or inspirations and what was school like for you? What were the things that were kind of getting you moving forward and what you were inspired by at that time?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, the dog at the time was fairly bleak, seamus, because a baller town in in the middle and throws of the 60s, 70s and 80s and. But I had a great. I had a great childhood. I mean we didn't have any mobile phones or computers or tablets or and we were lucky enough to have a tv and even at that you were limited to how much you could watch it. So it was basically you had your breakfast, you were gone at out the door, soccer rounders, you name it, we played it.
Speaker 2:And school I love. School wasn't particularly very good at it, uh, all through my school career I wasn't very good at it, but uh, I loved it. I love the social side of it. I love going meeting my friends and I would always, um, I would always say I'd be a kind of typical, kind of happy-go-lary kind of bloke. I was easy going and loved to have conversations with new people and and that kind of stood me well all through my life.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so that I happy memories of Dundalk growing up, shamelessly. I mean, like I said, it was bleak. There wasn't a lot of work, even to the point when when I went actually looking for an apprenticeship and stuff like they were so rare and hard to get. It was at that time was like the son of a father who had probably served his time in the, and that's just the way it was. I mean, the jobs were very hard. So ultimately, when I got what got the chance to leave and up, I said, okay, I'm going on a soccer trial. It didn't work out, but there was no rush to come back because there was nothing there anyway. So, but other than that, really happy, positive memories. In terms of the household, it was a bit mental Eight kids there was kind of four of us very close together, a gap of four years and another four. So yeah, I don't know how my mother does it. I still today, have conversations with her. I said, like, what was it like? And she goes.
Speaker 2:I'm the youngest of seven. You're the oldest of eight, so there's a lot of similarities there, for sure.
Speaker 1:First up best race, Seamus. Yeah, I was called the sport one. That's the difference. I'm the youngest, so is my young fella as well. My younger brother, fantastic. So who did you go on trial with? In England, turkey United, ah, okay, brilliant. So soccer was a big thing for you then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I played soccer all my life, and right up until I really couldn't and shouldn't have played anymore. The time I retired from soccer was I was playing in another 40s competition I wasn't 40 at the time, though and I got an elbow into the eye and actually it damaged my eye socket and I had one of those real kind of dandy kind of shiners. And I was actually meeting a client the following Monday and I said that's it Like the conversation around the eye. When I went in, he was going. This guy was looking at me, going who am I getting into bed with here? You know, yeah, yeah. So I said you know what? Yeah, it's not worth it. I was just kind of getting going and yeah, but yeah, soccer was a big part of my life.
Speaker 2:But, I love sport in general. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you made that transition then so you were over in England kind of finding your way and doing your thing, andy, and then the next kind of big thing for you then was joining the Navy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had applied the year before, seamus, and I think I was too young at the time. But they said, look, we're going to be on a recruiting campaign for the next couple of years, so if you'd like me to keep your name on file, and I said, jesus, yeah, that'd be great and I didn't think really any more of it. Then, obviously, I went to England, got a job in the Grand Hotel in Turkey and I was working away and my mum rang me during the summer that year I think it was around June or July and she goes you've here, you're to be in Clash Barracks and then dock in two weeks time for an interview for the Navy. And I said, oh, ginny Mac, okay, that's grand. So I've got me, got me stuff together. And I came home for the interview and I remember the officer at the time, gerry Rooney. He actually ended up being my class officer for my recruit training. He said, look, andy, lovely interview. He said I know you're in england. And I said, look, if I get this, if you're interested in having me, I look like this is something I really want to do, you know, um, and that was grand went back to england, walked away and, uh got a message from one of the lads in the house.
Speaker 2:I was staying in turkey. You've got to ring home straight away. So this is in november. And I rang home and I said, ma'am, what's the story? And she goes look, there's a letter here. You have to be in St Brickins Hospital on Monday morning. I said ma'am, it's Friday night at nine o'clock in the evening. At that time the ATMs were really only starting to come out. I had literally whatever I had in my wallet was what I had you couldn't hop
Speaker 2:on and literally had to and I was actually doing a line with a girl in Torquay at the time so I had to literally meet her, tell her I was heading home and probably wouldn't be back. I had to get a train. I got a train from, or a bus from, torquay to London, london, heathrow. I went to London, got a tube out there or a train out to Heathrow. I was on standby in Heathrow to Belfast until about 6 o'clock I think. I got a flight about quarter past, maybe half past six. Got to Belfast. I got a bus from Belfast at quarter to nine to Newry and when I got to Newry at whatever time that was, it was probably around it was a quarter to nine, so it was probably. It got to 45,. It was probably about half nine, quarter to 10. The half nine bus to the dock had gone and that was the last bus. So I remember ringing home to dad and I said dad, he said I'm outside and we're looking across the road and he said I'm outside a place called fryer tux which is still there today. Actually. He says look, my dad didn't have a car at the time. He said stay there. He said I'll ring mickey with his friend. He had a taxi. He said stay there, I'm going to get a cup of tea and stay there. He said we'll come and get you but I don't know what time it'll be. So about 10 to 12 that night.
Speaker 2:Midnight, after about three or four cups of tea, jumped in the car home and got home, said hello to the man, went to bed, had family dinner that day, got up and read my letter and I go home and I said bring an overnight bag. So I brought my one pair of underpants, my one pair of underpants, my one pair of socks, my toothbrush, a few bits and pieces and off I went. So I arrived in St Brickens Hospital on Monday morning, did my second interview, passed that and they said anybody who passed that you'd have a medical. So I passed the medical and I was sworn in at four o'clock and on a train to Cork at five o'clock that day and I was in 19th of November and I got home on the 23rd of December. So that one pair of underpants and one pair of socks. Seamus was well worn by the time I got home.
Speaker 1:You know how to stretch it out.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, I'm a master at washing and drying Fantastic.
Speaker 1:So what age were you then, Andy? I was just 18, going on 19. 18. And what was the driving force for you to go into the Navy? What was it like pulling you into that?
Speaker 2:I well, way back I had watched and this is going to sound corny, but I had watched an old John Wayne movie, em, he was the captain of a U-boat in the second world war and there was this picture towards the end of the movie where the, the submarine is just sailing across the, the sunset or the moon moon is shining silhouette and I said, but not be cool, I think about only about 12 or 13, and I'd obviously just buried in my head so I had a little bit of a draw. Then, when it came back up, I said, oh jesus, this might be something to do. Maybe it'll be a bit of structure for me, maybe, you know, I I get me fitness back or whatever. And because I'd worked for the summer and I was kind of had lost a good bit of the fitness that I would have been very proud to have, you know, and sort of copied a bit of everything and just a bit of unknown.
Speaker 2:Nobody in our family had ever been in the Defence Forces. So it wasn't the case of I was following Uncle Johnny or I was following Dad or anything like that, and I just thought it'd be something, you know, interesting to do. And I have to say Shane. It was probably the best decision I ever made. I loved every single minute of it Fantastic.
Speaker 1:So what were the things then, like when you went into the Navy at the start, let's say, other than the picture that you had of John Wayne and the thing that you see in the movie. What were some of the challenges then that you kind of faced at the start when you went in there, Like what were the things that you had to do to, I suppose, build you as a person to actually fit?
Speaker 2:into that role how they do you they, I suppose build you as a person. They actually fit into that role. Well, it's like anything else in any in any military there's an element of breaking down to build you back up, and the river crew training at the time was extremely difficult. It was a fairly harsh winter that year and I remember being out on on runs like like we. We we ran the half marathon in cork the following April in formation, but we were training all three recruits for it. So once we got our mileage up, we were probably doing maybe 17-20km a day in our gear. But then you'd be crawling through the field in ice and snow or somebody made a mess on the square when you're doing your drills and you'd be ran into the sea and back out again and have your gear all ready for you.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of challenges mentally, I suppose for me and I was a happy easy go larry kind of. Look like I said so having that kind of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom down on top of you, like that, was a bit of a shock for me and probably a shock mentally as well, and I probably struggled with it for for a good few weeks, uh, until I kind of kind of found the run of myself and you can feel your fitness improving and you can feel you start kind of falling in. You know, your mind starts falling into the controls, the, the answers that they have to make, the, the orders you're given, and then you gain that little bit of confidence that you're actually you know what I'm, actually I'm getting along here, and then you just build on that. But I think initially probably just the whole discipline element of it being driven into me. I probably wouldn't have been the most disciplined and focused person in my early years and I think the Navy definitely helped me with that.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Was there people that you went into with at that time that didn't last through those early few months.
Speaker 2:Oh, there was guys left the first week, second week, I mean, I think. Originally we had a class and I could be wrong I think it was a class of 36 or 37, and I think about 29 or 30 passed there. So we lost about six lads in that six-month period and then you probably would lose other guys Once you start going to sea. Then some people find that difficult again. It's a different challenge. But, um, yeah, I think the recruit training like nobody's geared up for that really, like you know, I mean, unless you have a military background and you're being told stories of how it was, you you might have a perception of, okay, I need to do a, b and c.
Speaker 1:But I didn't have any of that and, and to be fair, most of the guys that came in and joined at the same time as me wouldn't have had that either yeah, when you're going through that again and I suppose that for people listening in and those challenging times, especially in health and fitness and, as you said, like those mental challenges that you get placed under at that time, like what is it that you're thinking about at that time, that you want to actually endure that in order to move through are you like processing that in terms of like I need this for a career or this is going to take me X, y and Z? What was going through your mind at that time, andy?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of the time it was. I started this so I want to finish it. I would have been good at trying to. Like I said, I love school. I wasn't very good at it but I would always give it a go and I'd stick at it as long as I could to try and get it right. So I felt that was probably one trade that I did have and that was probably coming from my dad. My dad obviously look, don't give up. You don't need to always, if you want something, go after it. So there was an element of look, endure it, get on with it, and hopefully all your skills you're picking up will will complement that kind of sense of just getting on with it and doing it. Um, so I I wanted to complete it. I wanted for myself, I wanted, I wanted to say look, I joined up. Now the initial thing is six months training. After that I'll worry about the after that when I get to that point, but let's just try and get through it.
Speaker 2:So it was kind of dealing with the mental challenges around that in terms of how I was focusing myself. Like we have been dragged out of the bed at five o'clock in night before and the tank is empty and you're, you're heading out on a 12 mile run or a 15 mile run or whatever it was. Um, it's just dealing with all those kind of things, you know. But then it's different as well. Shame is when you have another bunch of guys with you. There's an element of that whole camaraderie kind of one guy starts singing and then you, you just you join in, or some guy will shout out something funny and you laugh, and it'll give you that little bit of a kick just to get you over the next 10 minutes in your head, and then all of a sudden it doesn't seem so bad anymore, you know. So there's a lot of that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of kind of feeding into each other as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant, it's so important you see that but a community and that culture.
Speaker 2:And I'm just looking at that and seeing, like you know, so much of those things important then that you take into business and what you create as well. Absolutely, and I think, and just a slight side way, but I think that's where I think a lot of young people going into the workforce now seamus are are losing a big time, especially with the remote element of work. And I know there's a lot of debate about the, the genies out of the pot now and we're not going to go back to five days a week. I I genuinely honestly believe anybody from 26 and under're not going to go back to five days a week. I genuinely honestly believe anybody from 26 and under should not be working remotely. They should be in the office five days a week because the whole culture element of dealing with getting to know your work, getting to know your colleagues, how you command and control, how you talk to your seniors, you know diplomacy, all that kind of they're skills you have to learn in the workforce.
Speaker 2:And if you are a solitary sedentary element on your own stuck in your bedroom in dunny gall or waterford or west kerry somewhere, that's not a good way to start off your work in korea and I don't care what anybody says, that will have an effect down the line 100. It will hold you back. Like it, it'll definitely happy you in some way. So, um, if any buyers are listening out there, I would just say keep them in. Just make it's no remote working till after 26 100 you've earned your stripes at that stage, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're, you can be trusted as well. I'm not saying you can't trust people, but I think they're just going to miss out on so many different elements of social and work skills by not being there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, even looking at it from just a human behaviour standpoint, you get to understand people, you get to see what works, what doesn't work. You get to understand and read people's social skills, all those challenges that you get meeting people being in their work environment, the bit of grief that goes on the slag, and all these different things that builds character and that builds resilience.
Speaker 2:Cazan Slag and all these different things that builds character and that builds resilience and I found that even Seamus, when I walked in the hotel in Turkey, and I didn't realise it until later on when I came into business and even into the Navy. The skills I learnt in dealing with front facing customers, how to treat people, managers like, don't poke the bear if he's in bad form, come back in an hour or two when he's had his coffee just little things that you read and learn. People are missing out on that hugely now by not being in work. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a massive part of that is understanding Not even the words that's being said. As you said, it's reading people's energy. You fill it. You want their room, you fill the vibe Right, something's off, what's going on? So all those things people aren't actually getting. They develop, um, if they're working from home 100, going back a wee bit again then and they say you stayed in the navy for what? 23 years, 21, 21, 21 years. So what was that like for you then? Kind of making that transition and coming out of the out of the navy.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it was a bit challenging. Um, the good thing about the navy and and the old contracts that we had at the time was that you had a six month grace period towards the very, very end, where you could actually tip your toe in the water outside in civilian life and see what was for you, and you still had your salary being paid by the Defence Forces. So it allowed you that little bit of freedom just to go out and see what was there. And for me, I was taking a chance. Ok, you had that six months. The money wasn't enough to pay the mortgage, so there was still that challenge. The bills. Thankfully marion worked full-time as well. Um, but obviously we had a couple. We had a couple of boys when I was coming out.
Speaker 2:So you're kind of worrying. You're kind of thinking to yourself okay, I'm gonna have to do a, b and c plus this to pay x and then everything's good. You know that kind of a way. So it was that whole. What if it doesn't work out? Like what is going to happen? Like you're thinking about failure then and the challenges that goes with that and how am I going to do?
Speaker 2:But I mean, I was kind of confident in in a sense, james, that I had my trade behind me anyway, so I wasn't going to be stuck and I'm from the dog, I'm a proud man. I'd sweep the streets if I had to. You know what I mean. I'm not. I'm not one of these people to say that that's too good for me, because I think when you learn enough skills, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll. You'll find your way back to where you were. You know it might just take a little bit longer, but, um, it didn't worry me that much. But just the whole thought of going out on my own with the business that would, that was challenging so did you like, and, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:Did you know, kind of coming near the end of your career, that you were going to set up in business? Or was that already a sidetrack that you were already doing at that time?
Speaker 2:when I went back to college and done, done the health and safety uh diploma in ucc, I really I really liked it and I said, you know, maybe that would be something I could do when I leave, rather than going to the trade and be dragging cables through a crappy site in December at 39.40. I moved it. Earlier on I had a little clipboard. I said the clipboard and the pen might suit me better, you know. But I enjoyed it and I think I enjoyed the interaction because within the health and safety kind of realm as well, you're dealing with people as well and you're trying to bring them in a journey with you to like to make a site safer for them. They mightn't see it. So again you're back to that whole kind of interaction, seeing how people react to you. You can, you can know, you'll know if somebody's in off. And here's this bloody health and safety guy again.
Speaker 2:Oh jesus andy, how are you good to see you yeah you know when you, when you get different reactions, you know how receptive you're going to be or not going to be, and what you can push and what you can't push, and how to bring it along with you and how you know you're not going to bring it along with you. So I think again going back to what you said earlier and what I said earlier, that the whole social skill element is huge and it's probably been underplayed in lots of ways important. So, yeah, so I had that whole kind of challenge in my head. But I think once I went, I mean I had that grace period, but the time we actually went in 2006, I probably had five or six clients that I was dealing with on a fairly regular basis and I probably had another half a dozen clients that were popping in and out on an annual basis for bits and pieces and maybe a bit of training here or come in and do a risk assessment here for us. So I said to marion I said, look, I think I'm going to be okay.
Speaker 2:I said if I, if I go. I said, well, what I'm doing here now and my pension, I should have two days a week where I can help out your mother and mind the boys take the pressure off and to this day she is. Whatever happened to that three-day gig you were talking about? Because as you, as you work, you gain a little bit of confidence, things that grow, things grow and the business kind of grew not rapidly, but probably grew about four, five, six percent every year. So and that gives you confidence that you're doing something right and you start training up yourself and more stuff and become more of a subject matter matter expert and then that opens other opportunities. So yeah, it was challenging but I delighted that I had made the jump as well because I think if I stayed any longer, shame is.
Speaker 2:I think you get institutionalized and I'm not saying that that's a bad thing in terms of the defense forces, I'm just thinking it. It limits what you can do later on if you decide to stay too long.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, yeah, 100, um, you get in that wee bit of a comfort zone, let's say, and it's like right, you know what. I'll just prefer this because it's easy, it's known, definitely so, like a lot of business owners and especially now as well too, andy like people are really interested in getting clear on your vision and your goals and the things that you need to do in order to help your business grow. What were the early stages for? Was it just kind of like day by day, week by week, or did you have an idea of like right here's?
Speaker 2:where I really want to take this, or was it just very much finding your way at the start the? The honest answer to that is when I, when I actually left on the on november I think it was november 26, 2006 and, and I'd been working away in the business that year it was let's get to the end of 2006 and see how we go. And when we got to the end of 2006, I think I'd made about 32,000 euros something small but on top of my pension, paid all the bills. We were able to go on a little holiday following year and I said, okay, now what's my goals for next year? And obviously you want to beat that. So I said, look, I'm going full time with this now. So I'm going to have a full year of this now, where it's all me. What's a realistic goal? And I said, look, let's aim for 100,000.
Speaker 2:We mightn't get there, but let's aim for it anyway. And I think we did 78 the following year, which again, which is great, really work on the business in terms of digging down on what I wanted to do. I was really able to go out and spend quality time with the clients and give them the service and the value that that they're paying for. Um, and the weekends were well, I suppose the first couple years the weekends weren't my own. They are now um, but it was, it was, it was me, you know, it was, it was just me. I was on my own, it was.
Speaker 2:There was not a comfort in it, but I was kind of happy in my own skin that I was. I'm confident that. I think I think we'll be all right. You know what I mean. And then every year then the goals change and I think probably four or five years in, I said right. I said goal is going to be we're going to ring the bell in the new york stock exchange. Um, that's the, that's the ultimate north star, and if we don't get there, what the heck? But we're going to have a bit of a blast trying to get there, and that was. And then you've got your monthly and your quarterly and your six monthly and your annually goals fixed in on that along the way well, that's a big shift from right.
Speaker 1:I want to enter 100k.
Speaker 2:They rang the bell and the yeah, well, that was about three or four years later okay, so what kind of shifted in your perspective?
Speaker 1:there was it.
Speaker 2:You started, just started to see the momentum and you started to see where this could go yeah, 2009, we um, I'd been working with a guy on a couple of projects and one of them actually in for photo wildlife park here in cork and built up a really good relationship, really good relationship with him and in he brang me up actually and I'll never forget it and I tell the story a million times but and I'll never, ever say anything bad about the guy because he's an absolute legend, but ever, forever grateful for the opportunity he brings me up. In october it was a really crappy sunday evening one night and he goes andy, how are things? And I said, damn, like, why are you ringing me on a sunday? He said I've good news and bad news for you and I said, ah, that's never good. I said give me the bad news first. He said I'm leaving the company and I said, ah, fuck, yeah. He said geez, we're just building up a bit of a rapport now and we had got on really well because Dominic had actually served in the in the military as well. He was an officer and he had spent about two years in Hull Bolin on the naval base for a couple years. So we had kind of similarities in terms of he knew the whole place and stuff and a lot of the people that were still there, um, and so he said I'm leaving. He said that's a shame. He said no, look, he said the good news is I am. I am the new security and safety manager for a large-scale multinational and I'd love you to come and do some work for me. I went oh well, that's, that's the good news. So he said can you be up in the morning at nine o'clock? And I said I said I can't. He said I have a plane meeting in the morning because I can be there on tuesday. He said belt on up. And that changed the change, the face of the business, that that that multinational is still in ireland today, one of the biggest um tech companies in the world. Um, obviously, nda can't say too much about the actual name, but it just transformed the business. So I mean that particular project.
Speaker 2:When I went in jamis it was he said, look, I want awards and all started. The front gate finished at the back gate and everything in between. You tell me what we need, both on the training front and all the regulatory front. So I said okay. I said that's probably, it's probably a two or three day project and then whatever it takes to implement it. So he said this grant, no problem at all.
Speaker 2:He said, um, give me a quote for that. So I give him a quote. I think the quote was about three and a half grand or something like that. Um, and he said, like, there's a po for 12. So when you finish, yeah, that's the budget you have. He said if it's less than that, that's happy days.
Speaker 2:So we went off anyway, did the whole report and he said, yeah, that's brilliant. He said, no, implement all the everything you need there, make sure all the lads are up to date and they're training and everything. And, uh, so we did that and we didn't use the budget. He was delighted with that. And then he said, look, can you go to um germany for me? And he goes yeah, jesus, yeah. So he said look, same same type of scenario, same facility, different people, but same process. We want to replicate this.
Speaker 2:And when, in the following three years, I was just I was auditing all the european sites right across europe. So it was a huge trajectory shift from the kind of three or four or five percent that we were doing on an annual basis in the early days to probably going from, like I said, 12 000 for the first project to, I would say, to go to 350 or 400,000 three years later because we were doing everything for them, you know. So it was a and a huge eye-opener for me, but to the point then, at that stage I had to bring somebody else on to look after the clients they'd built up in Cork and around the country because I project because it was just such a high demand project.
Speaker 2:Plus it's a massive client, so you have to produce the goods. Yeah, 100%. When you get that kind of momentum shift, as you indicated earlier, on your goals and shit. Well, if I can get this like, why can't I work with somebody else like this? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And a lot of the same people will say well, if you're working with them, you're good enough to work for us and you get opportunities. And that subsequently happened because, uh, dominic's second in command went on to facebook, his second in command went on to airbnb and we got opportunities to work with those guys along the way as well. So, and you build up again, you build up good, good relationships, relationships with these guys. You understand how the companies work, their management styles, so you can bring little bits and pieces back into your own business. So I think your overall confidence grows and that allows you to shift. Then in terms of what's your end game. Like, well, what are you at least aiming for as you're an art star, like I said, you might never get there but, at least that's something to aim for.
Speaker 2:What do you have to do to get?
Speaker 1:there you know how important environment is to your perspective and your goals. Like you automatically get taken out of that kind of environment that you run and how you were perceiving things and the goals you had. You were placed in a different environment and it just opens up so much more opportunities, so many doors, and then your vision expands from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, 100% yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What were some of the challenges then that you started to face as a CEO and a business owner and a leader at that time when you're starting to grow the team and grow the business, because, let's say, a lot of people won't actually grow and move forward towards that because a lot of the internal stuff. So what were some of the things that you were facing at that time within yourself, andy, like growing the company and starting to become that leader and bringing other people in underneath you yeah, I think 2007 I took on my first, my first team member, trish.
Speaker 2:She was the office manager, um, and I suppose the realization of the time shame was that, no matter what goes on, trish has to be paid every week. So I am now second. This is the. This is the number one person in the company, and not because it's trish or the job she was doing. It's because her likelihood is based on me and how the company performs. So my responsibility is as much as it is to the clients. It's now to make sure that Trish is paid every week, and so that was a kind of a that was a big mind shift like in terms of responsibility.
Speaker 2:And then in 2009, we brought on our second person, so then the team was starting to grow, and so then you're.
Speaker 2:So these two guys have to be paid every week before me, and, and once I was comfortable with that, then I said that's fine, but that's based on me making sure that I'm out being productive to what I'm doing to the max, so that I'm getting maximum return for my, for my time with my clients, so that all the bills are paid and include including the guys, and so that was a little bit of a challenge just in terms of coming to terms with that, just realising that element of responsibility was on my shoulders.
Speaker 2:Not just that we have to do our tax returns and their semantics in lots of ways because they're just part of the business, but when you're responsible for a person, that's a whole different mind shift. I found it difficult at the time. Shames. But again, like anything else, as the company grows, then you bring the turn of four person on, your confidence grows and then you see one or two of them stepping through as kind of like semi leaders and leaders and they take a little bit of the pressure off you. Um, but yeah, I found it difficult at the start. That's the honest, honest answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's the same for everybody. I suppose they all go through those things. It's as you said, it's having that responsibility. It's not just about yourself and you kind of get in that comfort zone when it's just your own. But again that limits you as well too. Supposing the growth that you want to experience, can you share a time then, andy, where there there was maybe like a perceived failure and like in business, and how that maybe unpacked the g in terms of like the growth that you also got from the back end of it?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I, I'll go back to pre that phone call in october, that summer, obviously 2009. We're in the thick of the old global crash at the time and we were. We were struggling big time in terms of getting people to pay us on time. And, um, I remember sitting in the office and I was saying to trish and I said we're not going to have the rent for you, for this guy next month, you know, at the end of the month. And, uh, he he was a stickler, like he like he was in on the monday morning if you were late on the friday at the end of the month. Uh, and he came in the monday morning. He said, look, if it's not there in the next two weeks, andy, I'm going to. It was part of the agreement. Then he said, look, that's fine.
Speaker 2:So I remember sitting in my office and I said what the hell am I going to do? Like, we have to pay the rent. And I remember I don't know what it was, but I'd be a big believer in the universe and camera and all that kind of stuff as well. Seamus, and I remember just throwing the question and I was probably talking to myself. I said, realistically now, how am I going to pay these bills? Like what possible solution?
Speaker 2:And out of nowhere, I had this brainwave said why don't you reach out to your top 20 clients, tell them you're having a small liver problem, is there any chance to get paid yearly? And we reached out to 20 clients and after 20 clients, 18 of them paid us early, paid the rent. I got the phone call probably about six weeks later for for that, for that, for that um, change in the business, and it was just like, okay, there's your, there's your growth now, yeah. And then we just had that rainy day fund set up and put a few bob in every month just in case it happened again.
Speaker 2:And that contract really tied us through the really kind of shitty, crappy times in that global crash because, as you know, the country was in a mess 2009, 10, 11, 12 it was probably 13 and 14 before it really only started, uh, coming out of that. But we got opportunities from working with that client to go to other global clients that weren't challenged because they're obviously doing a different space, and it tied us through. Yeah, it really saved our break and just give us that kind of little bit of iteration and growth then.
Speaker 1:And off we went. Comes back to the very simple thing If you don't ask, you don't get.
Speaker 2:Jim Rohn always said, and when he listened to it this morning again, he was doing one of his speeches and he said there's a parable in the Bible that said you know if you want something. And he said take this down now. He said ask. And then he pauses and they're all kind of waiting. He goes ask. It's just like just ask. If you don't ask, you'll never know. And we ask, you never know. And we all have a fear of that as well, though you know well just what a shame it says no, what it says yes, but our, our natural inkling incline is to come to the negative and think, oh, he's going to say no yeah, like and you don't know that it's trying to convince yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a fear of rejection oh, we hate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then irish people innately hate rejection and we're drawn towards negativity. Yeah, I don know what it is. It's in our DNA, and especially when it comes to money it's like even it's doubled again.
Speaker 1:I do yeah, yeah, 100%. I love the thing he says as well too. Jim Roney says if you're going to the ocean, at least take a bucket, don't take a teaspoon, no. Basically, if you're going to the university, ask for something. No, at least go and ask for something big, don't be taking a teaspoon, take a bucket at least no yeah, yeah, yeah, because I think you have to stretch yourself as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That goes back to comfort zone and all that. I'm sure we'll get into that. Yeah. Yeah, that was the challenge, the fear of the whole, just the thought of possibly failing and being kicked out of the office and how would that look. And out of the office and like how would that look? And then the difference on the other side of it, like six weeks later when we get the call, and it changes the face of the business. You know, so it's. But as you said, if you don't ask, you won't get yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:Okay, so bring us into the present day then, andy like what's going on now. Give us a listeners a wee bit of an insight about the business. It's a global business. Um, where are you at right now and what is it that you're involved in right now and how is that operating?
Speaker 2:yeah, cool, yeah. So, like 2014, we got an opportunity. Um, james, I was over the states, I am working on a project for that client, um, and I got an opportunity to um resource two guys for a project for the multi, for the multinational in america. You know I I didn't want it at the time, um, because I was very happy in my own kind of safety consulting and training. That's what we're really good at. And he said look, he said the lads love working with you. I don't particularly like the company they're with. This is going to go out the tender. Would you be interested in in managing the? And I'm just kind of saying, okay, two days, how hard can it be? But it's 5 000 miles away. I'm not living there. So I said, look, can I think, can I think about it? And he says totally. He said it's not going to change until the new year. So he said have a think about it. So that was December.
Speaker 2:So I went home and later in December, unfortunately that year, one of my younger brothers passed away, two days before Christmas, and I remember sitting in this house with one of my younger brothers saying I have this opportunity. I said I kind of like to do it. But he said it's just there's a lot of headaches. I'd say it's in America. And Robert, my brother, said to me. He said he said you want to do it, why don't you do it? He said I think you should do it and he said if Wayne was here, no-transcript. What's the worst that can happen, you know. So I went back to steve and I said look, steve, yeah, I'll give it a go. He said that I'm happy to see. Brilliant. So set up a company. Um, in in the states, took on those two guys, managed them for about a year and a half. We took on a third person.
Speaker 2:So we're probably towards the end of 20, half history, 2016, maybe even the end of 2016, and I get a call from one of the guys that I'm working on saying look, um, would you have a chat with this? This person that went and met this guy called eddie and he says, uh, yeah. He said we'd love to have you get a couple of safety consultants for us, but on the resources side. So he said, oh, yeah, that's. He said it's a perfect fit, because you're not your, your company's an environmental safety company did that and, uh, within three months after that project, he had sent another 17 people to us, either people that he was changing from existing vendors that he wasn't happy with uh to us, or new positions that he asked me to fill. So it kind of went like that to just like to that it changed within the space of three months and we pretty much doubled every year after that. So we're probably up to about 170 now globally in 11 countries and we're about 19 states in America on the global recruitment side.
Speaker 2:On the health and safety side, we're Ireland, uk, we've done a bit of work in Germany, poland, a small bit in America, but the talent business has really kind of mushroomed in terms of where I ever even imagined it could have gone, um, which is which is fantastic. So, uh, that's pretty much where the business is no shame, it's like it it. We now have a group of companies. We probably have about 19 entities within the companies like we've got. I always kind of set up an entity in each country.
Speaker 2:I think it's it's easier to do business when you have the entity there. Plus, if there's any problems with that entity there, it can be wound up there and it doesn't affect all the other businesses, even though they're all going to kind of report in under the group structure anyway, and we've also got into like a wee workspaces now. So we call them Mac and Go. So the story around that was I bought a site in Rutherford in North Carolina where my old CEOo in america was living. She's still there and we still do a lot of stuff together. But, um, there's an old 1940s bookshopping garage I saw for the town. Um, so we picked it up for about seventy thousand dollars, like nearly four thousand square feet, and converted into our east coast office and then realized it was probably too big for us. So half the other half of them we leased out a couple of hot desks and a couple of office and that's been pretty much full since we've done it.
Speaker 1:Um, mac and go.
Speaker 2:I love the name mac and go, yeah, um, so, yeah, you can get a hot desk for a day, you can get a hot desk for a week, or you can get you can take an office for a month or whatever, or for 12 months, um, and small towns like four and a half 5,000 people, but they have nothing like that, or even within a kind of 15 or 20 mile radius. So people that were affected then by COVID, who were looking for somewhere to go, even just to get away from the house, we used to convince weed farmers coming in doing their crop reports and stuff, because they had no Wi-Fi where they were three miles in the road, like, and spending the day in the office doing all the paperwork and heading off again. So it became a kind of a little community hub as well that people and people came to and subsequently, funny enough, shames that went.
Speaker 2:When uh, hurricane helene went through recently. It went right through north carolina, so a lot of the area within probably a 40 or 50 minute radius of where we were were very, very badly hit, um, and we opened their doors up free so anybody that needed, uh, wi-fi, we were very lucky, we were only down for a day, um, anybody who needed wi-fi or somewhere to call a printer. We just opened it up for everybody and when you know, the two guys are working in the office. I've gone remote and we've just we've hired out the whole office. So people, people had come in and said you know, I actually forgot what an office environment was like.
Speaker 2:I've been working remote for the last three or four years yeah this is brilliant and literally just come in and taken an office now or taken a hot desk, which is brilliant, great for networking too with other business owners oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But like it's funny, like Lenny said, like she she couldn't get over the reaction of the people when she was talking to them that they really had forgotten what an office environment was like, because you can become very siloed, you've become very siloed very quickly and you do miss out on a lot, as you were saying, like those little kind of cooler chats, like coffee chats for 10 or 15 minutes with a different business owner. Jesus, I'm struggling with this. Oh, do you know what I did for that? And like, a problem shared is a problem half. You know, and it's an old saying, but it is so true.
Speaker 2:Um, so we're actually looking at doing another one of those in a place called reedsville it was about two and a half hours away, but in in in north carolina as well, and we're doing that in conjunction with the city of reedsville. Um, so that'll be a nice project. So we're hoping to go to a Reef 4 project, probably later on in the summer this year, or better start in the summer next year and have it ready for end of next year. Fantastic, yeah, and a little bit of property here, obviously. I bought a hotel in the dock and I bought another little hotel in North Carolina as well. So I've kind of moved into that kind of element and just for the bit of diversification within the group.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. What do you see, then, as are some of the most successful traits that you see in leaders in business? What are the things that they have, what are the things that they do, what are the things that they embody?
Speaker 2:It's a good question, seamus in 2019. I was kind of looking at how do I get to the next iteration of growth for myself on a personal level, because I think if you do it personally, it impacts the business anyway. So I went off and I researched a load of the billionaires, multimillionaires, millionaires, like what are these guys doing? And the common traits that were running through them all was the health and nutrition. They read a lot Meditation guy is doing. And the common traits that were running through them all was they held the nutrition. They read a lot meditation or like just being by the sea, like they had an element of calming or kind of built into their day. Um, training, all that kind of stuff. It was the common thread that read through. I would say 98.5 percent them, which was amazing, because you're going to say that it can't be just that, but the difference it makes to you as a person. So I said, ok, 1st of January 2020.
Speaker 2:I didn't know COVID was coming 2020, I'm going to do a few changes. So I said, right, I'm going to start getting up earlier and at the time I was probably maybe half six, seven o'clock, so I so I said, right, I'm going to start getting up earlier and at the time I was probably maybe half six, seven o'clock, so I kind of, over a couple of months, got down to five o'clock, so no later than half five. So between five and half five I'm up every day. So I meditate for half an hour, I read for half an hour and I go to the gym or I go for a run and by quarter past eight, half eight I'm done breakfast in the office for nine and I found my concentration levels went up.
Speaker 2:I found my focus went up, I found I was more alert, I was sleeping better at night and I took red meat out of my diet. I started drinking a lot more water and, just little tweaks got rid of all the cakes and biscuits. I don't eat sweet stuff anymore. Three times a year Easter Sunday, my birthday and Christmas day and and I found it transformed me over the next 12 months, 18 months and that impacted on the business as well amazing man and it's so true like I coach a lot of business owners and CEOs and it's always the first thing I'll go to is right, what are we doing?
Speaker 1:what's the day-to-day business like? What's your sleep like? What's your nutrition like? What's your hydration like? Are you training, are you exercising? Because when you start to feel good about yourself and you show up in that way, the ripple effect is profound, because now all the people are starting to get to see you in a different light. You've got a different level of energy, your productivity is increased, sleeping better, you're feeling better, and that can only enhance the work environment.
Speaker 2:It can only enhance the business as well yeah, and sometimes you don't see it, like you don't physically see it yourself, other people notice it, though you're 100 right. Other people notice that and I think people are attracted to that as well, like you, look, I, I've, I've got um. I would say your, your circle, your, your circle of contacts, you, you see these new people coming in and they're successful in their own right. But I think people like that start levitating towards people that are doing the same thing, and I've noticed that over my career we're 20 years in business now, we were 20, 20 years in business last week and over the 20, 20 years, you can see the different circles change and as your aspirations grow, your confidence grows, or your, your vision or your dreams grow, so does your circle.
Speaker 2:It's funny, like I mean, and that iteration in around 2020, there was a whole level of, of course, in 2020 I actually qualified as an entrepreneur of the year finalist. So then you're into a whole different sphere of top quality. I mean the dennis o'brien's, the sean gallagher's, the harry hughes, like port west, like all these guys are having coffee with, like, so they, the buzz that comes off these guys, then it's just nothing's nothing's impossible. Then you know I mean. So you're talking about iterations of of mindset and where you can go. There is no end to where you can go, it's just have you. Have you the courage to go yeah at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, and I think even what you're saying there is, just like all leadership is self-leadership. You have to be able to lead yourself first. You have to be able to have the discipline in those areas, and I get it. Everybody has a unique set of priorities and values. Not everybody will value health and fitness in the way you might value business, but I think, like implementing those things in their daily habit and daily practice is going to improve all other areas of your life, especially your business no, it does.
Speaker 2:It does because if, if you're performing better in like personally, your business performs better, because you're performing better, you're making the extra call because you have the energy, you're going to the extra meeting because you have the energy, you have the focus, you have the concentration, you're making better decisions. So you mightn't think that it's affecting, but it's all connected, like we. I'll use jim rohan again uh, shameless. He said he was talking to a guy back in the 80s, a bit good, good into business. You probably heard it, but his big thing was your man had said to him said jim, you're rushing around like a lunatic, stop. He said how about? He says I look after me so I can look after you, but you look after you so you can look after me, because if you're not looking after yourself, you can't look after anybody else 100 your point.
Speaker 2:What you were saying there about, about leaders. Um, there was a a funny story there one time about this guy going to interview this horse leader in kentucky and he said the horses were immaculate, the stables were immaculate, everything was immaculate. And he said he met your man. He said he was running down the stairs eating a burger and he's like what happens? If you're like this, all goes like there's no point in all this being fantastic if you're not able to enjoy it or able to like be here, to like to take it to the next level. See like you have to look after yourself. It's the mask and the playing. Shame is yeah, put your own mask on first before you look after anybody else.
Speaker 1:100% that's so true. Um, okay, what is it that's really inspiring you right now, then, andy? What is it you're moving forward towards, and what do you get inspired by on a day-to-day basis, um within your business?
Speaker 2:I think impacting people, I people. I think there's clients and there's business and you want to do well and you want to serve your clients well and add value to them. But I think I'm at the stage of my life now like I'm 58 next month and I love giving back. I mean I do spend a lot of time now with if somebody rings me up and say, look, could I have half an hour of your time. I do spend a lot of time now with if somebody rings me up and say, look, could I have half an hour of your time. If I have it, I'll give it, definitely will, because I think if you can share some of the pains and aches that you've got, that they can avoid. I think that's a positive. Or like that talk I did a couple of weeks ago that you were speaking at Seamus, if I say one thing that somebody can take away and utilize that in their personal life or their business life or making a career decision, then you've impacted the world. You know what I mean? It's not a dent, but you've impacted and it doesn't have to be a huge impact. All it takes is to change one life, one direction, and you don't know the ripple effect of that, you know. So I think I get the enjoyment out of that.
Speaker 2:What's kind of driving me now? I suppose the hospitality side of things, getting the hotels up and running. And I'm really excited about that because obviously having my first job, real job, was in hospitality and it was always in my head and obviously didn't realize how much it was in my head until I kind of bought the hotel, um, but yeah, that's a whole kind of refurb project is starting in the new year and so opening later on next year. So yeah, that's kind of driving me at the moment. But just getting out of bed in the morning chemist, I mean there's always something to be done.
Speaker 2:There's always like a conversation to be had. There's it's life. You know, if you don't enjoy it, I mean you're missing it. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean. So I heard someone saying recently I thought it was brilliant this is inspiration as a real currency.
Speaker 2:I thought that that's, that's so true oh, it is absolutely, and like you're looking at people, what they're doing and even new businesses and you go, my God, if they're doing that, like, what can I do? And I'm actually looking at a new venture myself. I went and met a couple of people there earlier on in the week and, funny enough, they said actually we think that's a great idea. And I said, yeah, we probably said that to everybody he goes. No, we, pretty much with nine out of 10, we would say no to, but we actually think that's a good idea. So watch this space.
Speaker 1:Ah, fantastic. Happy days, Andy. For people who are interested in knowing more about you and knowing what you do, where's the best place to send them?
Speaker 2:LinkedIn is probably the best place. Seamus, if you type in Andy Mackin, you'll see me, I'll pop up. But Instagram as well. I don't do social media as much. I know technically LinkedIn is kind of social media, but I think from a professional standpoint LinkedIn is probably the best place to do business, so I probably spend my most time on there. You might see the odd tweet from me or you might see me just replying to the odd Instagram post, but I kind of made a decision a couple of years ago that not to be living my life. Not that I don't want people understanding what I do, but I think live your own life. Yeah, I mean, we get sucked into scrolling and other people's lives and you're losing time to be living your own. 100. I think only when you get to this age you can realize that the clock is ticking. You know, like the great book actually um oliver brookwell 4 000 weeks, and that 4 000 weeks is what you get for if you live to about 78.9. I think they rounded off the 80.
Speaker 2:They said you lift the 80 but, it's a great read, but it's very profound. He's basically kind of saying like, what are you waiting for?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask actually ask you if you got any books to share. You just shared one. Is there any other books that you've read that's having a had an impact on your life and business um, I kiss the frog brain tracy really, really small book, but great read.
Speaker 2:The Compound Effect, darren Hardy I would follow Darren Hardy stuff a lot. I do a lot of his training material. He's very, really good, very business focused, not into the woo stuff, it's just pure. And Jim Rohn was actually his mentor, so he and he actually bought all the rights to Jim's stuff. So, like on the online portal that he has, we have access to all jim's stuff as well, which is brilliant, which is great. You know, I kind of I love jim rohan, but got into him later in life.
Speaker 2:Um, one of the atomic habits, not a great book. And this year, what I'm doing actually shame is I'm rereading my fam, my favorite 12 books. That was one of the other things I did in 2020. As part of the reading, for half an hour in the morning, I said I was going to try and read a book a month, and then, for the four years, what I said in 2024, now I'm going to read my favourite 12 of the previous four years. So I'll send it on to you. I'll share it with you, yeah, and you can share it with your listeners if you want. Brilliant, but yeah, there's some great ones in there. Yeah, have you wrote a book?
Speaker 1:I'm half as true ah, okay, how about it was that? Was that a secret or we just revealed something there?
Speaker 2:no, no, yeah, no, I wouldn't have told too many people. Yeah, um, because they're it's like anything. I'm like definitely wouldn't be telling my wife. So I obviously not listening to the podcast when it goes out, um, because you'll be going. What are you doing? Writing the book? Who do you think? You are the usual kind of? But yeah, it's just something, something that I not that I always wanted to do, but I said, if all these people are impacting you, you have a twist and a take on how things are. Like there's nobody reinventing the wheel kind of stuff here either. But it's just, you know, when you're hearing somebody else's voice differently or said differently, it might have an impact. So I said, you know what, we'll just tip away. So I'm kind of halfway through it. Yeah, I probably should just set myself a deadline. I haven't set myself a deadline, so I'm probably kind of guilty of slacking here and there yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I think that the life that you've had, the experiences that you've had, the journey that you've been on, your perspective on life and business and being in the navy and all sorts, um, I can see how valuable that would be for people to read 100 thanks for saying that. And they it's been a pleasure having a conversation. Oh, it's been a pleasure having a conversation.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's been a pleasure having a conversation. I love these shames because it's just you're sharing stuff with like-minded people and I'm sure the listeners are like-minded people as well. So hopefully they got something valuable out of what I had to say with you yeah, thanks for having on.
Speaker 1:Appreciate your time on the pleasure.