The Seamus Fox Podcast.
This podcast has been created to share real life experiences from inspiring people in all walks of life, those who have engineered change in their own lives through a shift in thinking and beliefs. I want to share my own journey and have others share theirs so that it can help inspire others to crete the internal changes thats needed to create long lasting life changes.
The Seamus Fox Podcast.
Building Bonds and Businesses with Jim Fisher
Jim Fisher takes us on an inspiring journey from his math-infused childhood in Florida to leading a virtual financial services company. With a unique blend of mathematical precision and entrepreneurial spirit, Jim uncovers how his early passion for numbers and his father's unexpected influence guided him to uncover revenue opportunities in financial services. He shares how youthful ventures, from selling bracelets to launching pop-up dining and a bocce league, laid the foundation for his business acumen. Jim's story is a testament to the fulfillment found in crafting businesses that align with personal values.
Shifting gears, Jim reveals insights from his corporate tenure at Apple, where customer experience became a cornerstone of his sales philosophy. He challenges the traditional sales approach by advocating for transformation over transaction, emphasizing the significance of solving real customer problems with integrity. As communication is paramount in both business and personal realms, Jim discusses the pitfalls of "covert contracts" and the power of vulnerability in leadership to foster open dialogue and express true needs.
The episode further explores Jim's entrepreneurial venture with Juicebox, highlighting the importance of experimentation and personal responsibility in achieving business growth. Balancing this with family life, Jim shares strategies for navigating the challenges of parenting alongside leadership, drawing parallels between nurturing a family and building a business. Through authenticity and commitment, Jim inspires listeners to show up genuinely, creating meaningful connections and value in both personal and professional spheres.
Guys, welcome back to the podcast and Conversations that Matter, and today I am joined by a guest who I've been working with and coaching for the last six months, mr Jim Fisher. Jim, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Great to have you here, jim. Jim, we're going to get into a right few things as we go, I suppose, but for people that are listening in and don't know who you are, can you give us a wee bit of an explanation as to who you are and what you're involved in right now?
Speaker 2:of a financial services company. I wasn't always that way, though. I used to sell for companies like Apple in the past when I got started in my sales career and then kind of went off as a consultant on my own and through iteration of finding where I could create the most value for an individual. About six years ago I happened on a really focused niche of financial services here in the United States that work completely virtual, helping their clients plan for retirement, and there's about 150 plus of those people outside of our team of 60 that we work with. So a little bit about what we're up to right now.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. What we're going to do is take a wee bit of a deep dive back and I'd love to take a back with my clients and and not sorry, just clients, but podcast guests. But they found out what were those early inspirations for young jim fisher. What was it like growing up and yeah what was it like as a young jim fisher growing up? Where did you grow up and what was that early inspiration for you?
Speaker 2:so I was born in New York City, but at the age of three he got out of the busyness of the city and moved to Florida, in, you know, the southeast part of the US, and and that's where I really grew up we, we left New York because my dad was also never thought this would be the case, but it comes full circle. My dad was in financial services, worked for big banks and just didn't have a work-life balance, and so, in leaving that industry, we left New York City for probably a better family life, and I think that was probably the case. You know, a better, a better, um family life. And, um, I think that was probably the case, cause I had a great childhood growing up, Um, and didn't make it back to New York until I was, uh, in my late twenties, Um, I went back and tried to uh make it in the big city and had some some good success.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I grew up, grew up in uh in Florida most of my life and, uh, pretty normal Um, you know, I got a, got a twin brother, uh, as well as uh, you know a sister's a few years older and, uh, mom and dad are still married. They'll be uh, we'll be celebrating 50 years in the next year or so here, so uh um good, good life, fantastic.
Speaker 1:Was there anything that you were doing at that time, jim, or that you were interested in even in school? That was like the thread of what you're doing right now. What were you interested in in school and what was the things that were inspiring you in school Math?
Speaker 2:I love math. It's a language, I think, and's I like the you know the objectivity of it. Um, I love learning and ultimately, at this point, like, I feel like it's like learning is entertainment to me, and so I think I've been able to uh go pretty far in life thus far because of how much I enjoy the learning process. But, but specifically around math, I'd love the uh, you know, there there isn't a lot for kind of interpretation in math. Um, it, it, um, it's very objective and and so I love that uh about it. And and uh, yeah, I've always I mean, my earliest memory of math was a specific teacher in the fourth grade.
Speaker 2:Um is where I probably like fell in love with math because I was good at it and it made sense to me and I realized, uh, how useful it was. Um, you know, I think there's a lot of jokes that people have like when they come up and especially when they don't like math, they talk about you know, when am I ever going to use X or Y? You know, uh, specific things like Pythagorean theorem, and, and I'll tell you, um, it served me well to the point where, when I was in new york city and I uh lived there prior to where I'm at now, and I built a bar with my brother. Um, I used pythagorean theorem because I designed the whole thing and, uh, I needed to figure out you know some of the answers that those formulas gave me. And so, yeah, I found it very useful to me and I've always loved math. And then today I'm financial services. I mean, right before we jumped on here, I was using math to uncover, you know, probably a half a million dollars in revenue with one of my advisors.
Speaker 1:Fantastic.
Speaker 2:And so math is useful.
Speaker 1:So was it something that you thought right coming through school or university, or thinking about progressing through school? I'm going to do something with math. That's the thing that's really giving me inspiration. And what were you thinking about creating at that time when you left? Did you go to university, jim? Did you just yeah?
Speaker 2:I went to university and it definitely was mathematically focused, and so I went to the University of Central Florida, which is like one of the top three largest schools in the country. Still, to this day, you talk about what inspires you. The math and engineering is impersonal, and so, although I was doing well in the classes, I realized that the career I would have would be kind of alone in front of a computer. I mean, to this day my organization is completely virtual, with the client, it's an advisor, serve their clients, all leveraging virtual. So yeah, I still sit in front of computer. But the key difference in why I left engineering and ultimately graduated with degree in finance was because I I wanted to use math with people, not use math kind of in a vacuum inside AutoCAD designing stuff for engineer, engineering purposes and outcomes, and so ultimately got a degree in finance because I thought in business I could apply math and use it with people, because I love to connect with people.
Speaker 2:I think engineering is is a yeah, obviously there's a lot of collaboration that happens, and when I moved to new york city, I was in the engineered space, so I understood engineers. I sold their services, though, so I knew the math behind what they did and what made things safe. I worked on the World Trade Center reconstruction and updates to LaGuardia Airport, which is one of the you know, jf customers were the contractors running those projects and so, but that was where I got to apply math with people. I got to do engineered systems and sell the services offered by engineers, um, to create projects through people, um, and so I mean that's kind of the the two things that are the greatest intersection. I basically help people use math to communicate communicate their value to communicate, to communicate their value to communicate better outcomes, to increase their potential in their business, or help people whose business is to drive retirement outcomes, financially speaking, for others. How do you use the math to show people what's possible? And you know, and so that's that's, that's how those two things intersect today.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So how does doing a degree in finances and math and working in terms of what you were doing leading to opening up a bar with your brother?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean so I just to have a, a way to, um, connect the dots and, you know, and make the complex more simple, because I can see kind of the logic behind it, which is, you know what a lot of math is. If this, then that, um, you know, if, if a, then b type of scenario, and I, so I think that, um, you know, creating a compelling customer experience, which I think is the cornerstone to a successful bar or restaurant, is both art and science, right, the art is how do you deliver hospitality? How do you, how do you deliver a great experience that people want to come back to over and over again and tell everyone they know about it? Right? So that's the art part of it. But to do that profitably and just, you know, therefore, sustainably, like, make money by doing it need you need the, the objectivity of the math, like how do you price things? Um, how does the space make sense? How do you design a space that delivers that?
Speaker 2:That experience, I mean so all that experience in engineering and then selling engineered services in new york city gave me the ability to apply the math to create an experience, um, and then to apply the math to make the experience profitable Behind it, and why do I always love great experiences? Working for Apple and training over 500 salespeople at Apple and their cultures of service and creating a great customer experience, I learned how spaces, and the way that people show up within them as well, create that experience that drives something desirable that people want to come back to in business, and so that's kind of the role that I played is how does the physical space I can? You know we didn't hire an engineer. I designed the whole thing myself. I mean the physical plans, like that the electrician and the carpenter and the plumber used to build the space.
Speaker 2:Um, that's what I mean by design. I mean mean we had other other than that. It was a collaboration between my brother and I, and the thing is is that we we both we both loved experiences. We'll be participating in great, you know, food and beverage experience. We just wanted to share our belief on what made a great experience with others and we had a unique point of view on that, and so that's how we came together, and so I was kind of the the business numbers, you know, design and marketing guy, the storytelling guy, the sales guy, and he was the one that managed and developed the experience because he had been in bars and restaurants for 15 years at that point, and so us two coming together, me and my twin brother, who were still in business today um, we thought we could do something. Great. We did, we won a lot of awards, but then ultimately, uh, exited the business in 2018. Um, so we could move on to something else, which is what we're doing today was that both of your first stints in entrepreneurship and going it alone?
Speaker 2:no, no that's probably like the seventh okay, what was the yeah we did all I mean it.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people who may be listening, you know, who have, who have, who, who have the entrepreneurial bug, like, literally, they didn't, they didn't adopt it, they were kind of born with it. They probably all have stories of, like, the little things that you did along the way that were all technically businesses. You were trying to provide something of value and and and receive money for it. So at the first time I did that was probably in the, the second or third grade uh, him, you know, we made bracelets and sold them to people at school and that was our like first business. And then, over time, you know, uh, you know, we did a lemonade stand but we tried to mark it up. We got souvenir cups from the professional football team and so we could. We got those for free but so we could sell our lemonade for more because they came in the special cup, and so we did that.
Speaker 2:And and then we've, when, when he was in Chicago in the restaurant business, you know, I helped him run a pop-up events company If you've ever seen the show top chef and they, they, they set up a one night only restaurant. We basically did that and we would sell tickets to it. Um, it's like a pop-up dinner company. We put them in, like in a distillery, like, or a brewery or a clothing store, in places that you wouldn't have these incredible culinary experiences. So we did that and, um, and we started a, a bocce league. Um, you know, bocce ball, like the italian sport kind of, they call it lawn bowling, gotta get the big ball close to the small ball.
Speaker 2:We started that and in all those cases they all generated revenue. So that's when I say, well, what's a business? They all made money. The question was, were they worth the money they were making or do we find fulfillment and enjoyment with it? And so I would, if I were to. And I've counted it before. I don't know where we're at now and at this point it's all one enterprise for us, but there are multiple sub organizations and businesses within it. But I think I stopped counting at nine businesses. The ninth business is the current one, the eighth one maybe was the bar, and then there was probably seven different types of revenue making. You know, maybe you call them little schemes or projects, but they all made money and they all were part of the journey that led us to where we are today.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. You worked at Apple as well. What was that experience like? What did you learn specifically? What was it? If you could boil it down to one thing, what did you take away from working with Apple?
Speaker 2:Well, I kind of mentioned one of the biggest things that, uh, the the the biggest takeaway, the most remarkable I already said it it's customer experience and doing that like, not as, like you know, the sign you post on the wall, but making it like the DNA in everything you do. And I was in sales for Apple, and so if I were to go one layer below that, it was if I were to define it as one thing that still today is, if I had, if there's no problem to solve, there's nothing to present, that is a cornerstone of how I operate today, how I teach people to sell today. I mean, at the time I became a corporate trainer for Apple, trained over 500 salespeople for Apple, and so. But the thing is, if you didn't like, truly believe in customer experience, then you know my typical sales is more transactional, not transformational, not transferring you from your current state. Okay, you don't like that state, that's the problem. We can solve it with this product or service transformation. And so if there was no transformation delivered, no problem to solve, then there was nothing to present and you weren't asked to try to sell things to people that didn't necessarily need it. That was empowering and that's what really transformed me into believing that being a sales professional was a noble pursuit. Because another mentor of mine said money earned ethically is a byproduct of value creation. Well, at Apple I was empowered to look for ways to create value, and if I could not find that opportunity to create value then I was not expected to try to sell anything. And applying that to everything else we do, it's just typical.
Speaker 2:I think there's why a lot of people have resistance to salespeople is because I don't think everyone operates that way they like to think they do. It sounds incredibly simple, it sounds intuitive. That's the way it should be, but unfortunately people's own internal bias and interest take hold. But when that's the only way you know how to sell and then you realize it's incredibly profitable and incredibly fulfilling as well just to look for problems there's plenty of people who have your problems. Don't try to sell to the people who don't and just say I can't help you. Maybe they can point them in a better direction and move on, and that energy you put out in the world by doing that way will bring you all the business you deserve. And so if there's no problem to solve, there's nothing to present.
Speaker 1:Love that. It's not something you would actually think about. In terms of Apple, You'd automatically think right, they're just pushing their shell and they're doing everything that they can just to bring that cash in.
Speaker 2:If you go into an Apple store. You might, with that lens, you might like start to experience what I'm talking about, because you know what brought you in today. Oh, how's that going, you know? And there's a whole process to it, um, and like, if there isn't anything, well great, let me know if something changes, right yeah, there's no push yeah yeah, how did that then lead into the bar shut down?
Speaker 1:what was the biggest lesson that you learned in that gym with yourself and brian? What was the biggest lesson you learned in that business?
Speaker 2:Communication. You know, we had another partner in that business and there's a principle that I learned later to label the challenge that existed in this relationship that between the partners me, my brother and the third, that um between the partners me and my brother and the third Um. And and now I realize it is literally a cornerstone of of challenge, communication related challenge, which I think is the root of all great relationships, are that foundation and great communication, whether they business or personal. And uh, the lesson I learned later that would be accurately applied here is this idea of covert contracts, which are the unspoken expectations that we hold over others that cause like strife. Effectively. I feel you should act this way, but I've never told you that. That's my expectation of you, and I imagine that anybody listening to this right now could think about circumstances where they do that personally and professionally. And we do that because we don't want to ruffle feathers. We do that to be nice, and what I've learned is that being nice is often focused on protecting people's feelings by avoiding the truth and speaking it, whereas to be kind is to deliver the truth with respect. And sure there might be more tension in confronting the truth with people about how you feel, setting your boundaries, expressing what you need, whatever it might be in any relationship. But the truth is is that it's going to be hard either way. Either you choose your heart up front and you have the conversation now, or you suffer the heart of not speaking at all later. And so the biggest lesson in that business was that, um, we would have had a better relationships and better outcome.
Speaker 2:The business went great, but the relationship wasn't. That's why we left the business, that's why we exited Um, and it's because, uh, lack of communication. Um, we were immature, uh, potentially in in that um business journey to know to be the leader in, in leading that communication, although we tried, but also realizing that our partner's inability to communicate, um, he uh certainly had many more years on us, and so, um, you know, but, yeah, so better communication. And so now, and everything I do in business is just abundant upfront communication. I mean, one of our core values in our company today is superior communication.
Speaker 2:It's like, hey, when in doubt, communicate, don't assume, right, um, and we have all heard those ideas of you know what have the, what are the assumptions make, but but the, the, um, the anecdote to that and the action against it is to um risk over communicating uh risk risk uh expressing what you need. You know they say put your oxygen mask on first, right Um? You know you have boundaries. The fact that you're not communicating doesn't mean you don't have them, um uh, and if you did uh express them, you'll find that they have them too, and you can find a way to um have a mutually beneficial relationship by respecting those boundaries and continue to communicate as we evolve.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and I think it's so common, especially in business, that lack of communication and I love that um, uh analogy that you have for it and that name, the covert um covert operation, covert, covert contract, covert contract where you're not communicating. And in business, especially especially in partnerships, um, there is that lack of communication but a lack of understanding of what each other's values actually are, and then the expectation of other people to be similar to yourself, which creates a lot of conflict, and this is stuff that we've talked about a lot. So, for a leader, for a business owner, a lot of them won't address that, a lot of them won't actually do those things. What is it that you feel as a business owner, as a ceo, as a leader? Did you need to embody in order to have those conversations and not allow the lack of those communications to break down?
Speaker 2:uh, vulnerability and humility, to think that, uh, to to just express your truth in the resistance that you feel towards communicating. I think that the way you overcome it is to express the emotion out loud that is causing your resistance from communicating what is needed, what is necessary, what is important to you, how you feel. I mean very simply like if you, if you're in that moment and you feel like there's plenty of things you should be saying but you're not, maybe you should start expressing to the people that you need to be saying to it, and it could be the opening of the conversation or just the first conversation. I feel like there's a lot of things that I need to communicate to you, but I struggle to communicate them because I'm afraid of how you might respond, and I need you to know that I care and I only want to share the truth. That might cause discomfort, because I think we could all be better for it. That'd be an example of how you might express the truth and the resistance that precedes the actual conversation you're avoiding.
Speaker 1:And I think the vulnerability piece is so important, where most people are afraid to do that. Maybe there's an environment that doesn't allow it, but they're afraid to be vulnerable because they're afraid of being judged, or maybe from a past experience that they have been vulnerable and were judged and then it played out the wrong way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a journey, what I just said.
Speaker 2:It's not a wonder drug that will fix all the problems, but it's the beginning to the solution and you must continue to show up in that way and communicate from that place of transparency and vulnerability for the purpose of the mutually desired outcome that whoever you're working with is also after.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're doing right in business, your vehicle should be able to get what they want as well, whether they're your clients or they're your team. And so if you have that mutually aligned vision and in in what this can do for through you and your um, if there's a connection to that, then then you can just keep beating that drum of communication to a road that has been built up from a lack of communication. So it's a process and there are other factors, like I just mentioned, like there has to be alignment with those people and by communicating you might find that you know the team that got you here is not the team that gets you the next level and that becomes. You know, the shift in this vulnerability and purpose and transparency and growth, through feedback and and discussion of the good and the bad of how people behave and the results that they do or do not create and they need to move on and you find somebody that is more receptive to that next level of of of communication. So that's certainly true.
Speaker 1:What was the seed for juice box? How did that come about?
Speaker 2:It was working at Apple when, you know, I decided that when I was working at Apple I kind of hit a ceiling in growth. It wasn't necessarily I need to make more money right now, but I'm continually growing, because nature never stagnates, neither do we. You're either growing or dying, and I kind of wasn't growing. I became the smartest guy in the room. And who do I learn from now? How do I go from here? And so I decided that I had to leave the company to in the room. And who do I learn from now? How do I go from here? And so I decided that I had to leave the company to continue my growth.
Speaker 2:In hindsight, I just had bad leaders. I had leaders that wanted to keep me in a role that served them but didn't serve me in my growth. But when I I worked at apple, part of my success was, you know, I said, if there's no, uh, if there's no problem to solve, there's nothing present. Well, probably when I created solutions, the problems, they were broader than just the product, and so I consulted and worked on a b2b side of it. You know one of our clients. If you ever heard of the magazine I don't know if they have it over here popular science, popular mechanics magazine no, it's a big one in the us, but, uh, when magazines were a big thing, uh, but uh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so the big, big publisher, you know multi-hundred, if not billion dollar a year company, and there were clients like mine. So I had clients like that that I'd sold apple products to, but I consulted them on digital strategy, the things around the products, how to use this to grow your business. So when I left Apple, I had those people say can you still help me? Can you help me with this? Hey, email, social media, websites, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So it was, that was the, uh, the opportunity, uh, to continue to serve people. And that's what you know, the market asked for and said, um, they wanted from me, and so I had a consulting business on the side that ultimately, um, became a juice box, you know, digital marketing consultant, um, fractional cmo in the beginning, uh, and, and so that's kind of how the company started, um, you know, and the, the, the. The name is really simply uh, you wanted to be a vehicle, a container for growth, and so when you look at stories of how different vehicles and containers have driven growth, well, juice used to be distributed in glass bottles, and when they changed it to a box and something that was lighter, weight, less fragile, easier to distribute. That container, that shift in the vehicle of how the information that the juice was distributed exponentially grew sales, and so we want to be that container for growth for businesses, and so that's why we're juice box fantastic, jim.
Speaker 1:What was the earlier challenges that you experienced when you were beginning in Juicebox? What were the things at the start that, if you look back on that, maybe you would have changed or done differently? What were those early challenges for people that are listening in, that are maybe now starting to think about growing a business? They're maybe on that journey. They're starting to grow or maybe experiencing the challenges at the start? What were the challenges for you and what would you have changed looking back with hindsight, or done sooner?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the challenge is, I think, a lot of people, and it's part of the journey you just have to pay attention to when you're done with this phase, so the first phase, that you got to try a lot of things. If you're starting a business, you can't be, you can't assume, um, that you know what the market wants. Um, whether you you have a service or product-based business, you have to kind of hypothesize, test and iterate Um, and so in the beginning, you kind of do a lot of things for me and my business. Like you know, like I said, I served all types of businesses. I did all types of strategies email marketing, social media, review generation, websites, all these different things for all these different types of businesses. And what you really have to focus for is to have this constant pursuit of refinement against what is the result, the feeling, the outcome, the value that I deliver for people and who do I deliver it best for you. You should realize that the testing process of finding where that value creation is most, uh, most valuable to the marketplace, therefore, you could charge a reasonable price, make and be profitable, um, you know, earn more than it costs you to deliver, right, uh, that's the reason we're in business to, to, to exchange that risk of being on our own with profitability and so. But you have to have this relentless pursuit and purpose to say my goal is to become most valuable, and the only way I can do that is to test to a point where I become everything to someone rather than something for everyone. And so that's what I would have realized sooner is that the goal isn't to just be a digital marketing consultant that can help anybody grow their business. The goal is to become so valuable to a specific type of person that they would be silly, if they were in that market, not to work with me, because I am the preeminent expert, I am everything to that someone, and so it's to have that willingness to ask yourself. You know I called it. You know the mutually undeniable result how do we, how do I know that my client knows that this is the best that could possibly be in a service business? We were a marketing company. That result is neither neither party me nor the client had to ever argue whether we were being successful or not.
Speaker 2:That happens a lot in marketing. You put out a great billboard or an ad and you have no measurement. It's like did it work? I don't know. It looks good. Do you feel good? Okay, great, you want to do more right, and that's not really measurable. But that's how a lot of marketing works, and so you know.
Speaker 2:For me, I got to a point of refinement. Who do I deliver the best measurable result for Something so measurable? $1 in equals $5 out return on investment marketing into sales. $5 out return on investment marketing into sales. How do I get it so refined that I don't have to tell you that we're succeeding? You know we are and you want more. And then you want to tell everyone you know about it.
Speaker 2:And that's how you build a successful business is by being everything to someone rather than something for everyone. And when people hear that it's hard to do, because when you think I'll be a one-stop shop, I'll do all these things, I'll serve people in all these ways, and you think I'm going to expand my opportunity, but you're distracting your power. When you focus, you magnify your power. You become everything to someone. You can charge premium prices and be more profitable and be more fulfilled because you truly deliver highly measurable value to people, whether it's through a service or a product.
Speaker 2:I mean, you go back to Apple. That's what Apple does. They have the most profitable hardware business in the world. One of the most profitable companies in the world because these devices that many of us have and if you don't have an iPhone but you have an Android, it was inspired by the fact what the iPhone did, but as far as profitability phone but you have an android, it was inspired by the fact what the iphone did. So, um and but, but, but as far as profitability and apple, and that margin, parity in value, in experience, that the uh, the consumer gets from the products and that's why they pay and continue to pay it. And so how do you do that for your own business? You got to become everything to someone and you got to test to that level of value and focus.
Speaker 1:What are the things that you see, jim, in business, that you see within the entrepreneur space? From coaching so many different people, let's say in sales, what do you see as a similarities from the people that are moving forward, progressing, getting to where they want to be, and the people that aren't?
Speaker 2:personal responsibility that you know it goes to kind of what I was just saying. A lot of people they have, like this arrogance or hubris, um, that, the, that it's the market's fault, like they're not responding to this or, you know, my emails aren't working or I'm not closing business, and so they blame the prospect, the lead, the marketing, whatever, and and um, you know I. That's why I love the book extreme ownership Cause. If you want to see this to the ultimate degree, you know, read from a Navy seal who takes responsibility for his mission failure when it rains. Talk about extreme ownership, um, jocko Willink, a former Navy SEAL commander in the United States Navy. And and uh, and.
Speaker 2:When you can take that level of responsibility, well then you're trying to say well, what role do I play in creating this value? How do I make my offer so good, my service so compelling, my presence so powerful, my sales ability and the ability to connect with, rapport and persuade? How do I get so good at it that people would be silly to say no to me, that my business would have to grow because I would be so valuable? When you take that personal responsibility things you iterate, you change, when you externalize it and you say it's the market, it's the marketing, it's it's the people.
Speaker 2:um then, then you stay stuck because you have no control, because you blamed everyone else yeah, it's, it's everybody but me.
Speaker 2:It's not my fault yeah, I mean, I think there's just all versions of that. That's the most recurring thing. When I see people assessing when their stuff is broken, when I'm consulting other businesses or something I'm looking at, the most common thing is like a victim mentality is that you know so-and-so, said to do X and it's not working, and so they blame other things. It's like, well, you're not really doing it and you're also like not saying, well, how do I apply this to me? You know, and so it's just like victim mentality of like this is being done to me.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite quotes all time Um, I think I attributed Tony Robbins is like life happens for us, not to us, and that frame is that this is all an a growth opportunity of how I can be better, not you know. And said differently, one of my favorites, a mentor, early mentors your product sorry, your attitude is a choice. It's not a product of your circumstance. I think people who are ruled by circumstance will always be ruled by something else other than themselves. And so, man that feels powerless because you don't have any power, you gave it everywhere else, 100% Personal responsibility. You can iterate, yeah, things, but what can I change about this? How can I do this better?
Speaker 1:yeah you know simple, but it's very effective, 100%, and those types of questions open the mind, where you get more opportunity to look and be insightful and reflective instead of deflect them, which a lot of people do you deflect, they push the blame on, and I think that's so important to realize as well too, jim and you touched on that why it's so important to do the internal work, why it's so important to do the mindset work, because so many times people won't do that, they won't do the internal work, they won't work on themselves, they won't collapse the judgments, they won't collapse the beliefs, they won't collapse the shit within themselves. That will actually allow them to move forward, to maybe put their hand up, to be vulnerable, to drop the ego and ask for help. Would you agree?
Speaker 2:yes, I absolutely would. Um, it's, uh, I mean, at the end of the you know why do? Why do we do anything? It's because we want to, you know, have respect, maybe first with ourselves, by others. It's, you know, it's.
Speaker 2:It's often can be reduced to some type of status game of like I want to be appreciated, respected by you, my loved ones, my family, my friends, the people I think um should care about me, but don't, whatever it might be and and and so, um, yeah, if you, um whatever's driving you, you have to, uh, you have to take responsibility for how you can show up and and you have to risk, uh, being misunderstood and judged, and that's the vulnerability. But you know, if you take, if you actually take responsibility and you're doing everything you can and your intention is pure, you know that the only problem is perspective Theirs versus yours, and you just don't hold that against them and you move on. Life happens for us. Well, thank you for that. Maybe I can learn from your perspective, be it negative of me, and is it true, is it not? I can observe it, I can process it, but I don't have to accept it or take ownership of it If you think ill of me, unless it is the truth, I needed to actually shift into integrity either way, I wouldn't. So when, um, when you have that approach, you know, but, but, but to your point, like people don't. Again, it's like you know.
Speaker 2:I think maybe some people listening to this right now, hopefully, uh, you know, say, you know that makes a ton of sense, but I don't know if I certainly show up and act that way.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a person who's been um ruthless in their personal development, um, for uh, 20 years now, um, and for the last uh six years, I've had a personal coach, like Seamus, that I talked to every week to uh refine the engine of my mind and how I perceive the world such that life can happen for me, not to me, um, and uh, it takes work to get to this level of of, uh, I think, peace and empowerment, uh, so, uh, if, if, any of this is inspiring to you, get excited about the work, and the only way you can accelerate the work is through investment in people who can experience.
Speaker 2:As an expensive teacher especially when it's your own, because you have to try, fail, not know of whether you're making progress down the right path or not, but when you can invest in someone who's not only been down the path but seen many others and can help you avoid those pitfalls, give you focus on in clarity, on the tools um that actually help in iterating um your most important resource, which is, which is like how you think and move through the world your mindset, mindset then you can go much faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, jim, because your external world is just a representation of your internal world and when you sort your internal game out, things on the outside begin to change. But people kind of think it's the other way around. You touched on something there which I think is really, really important. It's feeling excited about the work, being in love with the work, being in love with that process and the day-to-day process. Where I feel in business, and especially in the entrepreneurial world and especially with modern social media, everybody's selling the fantasy, they're all selling the outcome, they're all selling the shiny object. What would you say to that, jim, and what do you do on a day-to-day basis to again kind of make sure that you're staying in line with your work, final of their work, staying on that process?
Speaker 2:there are, uh, a couple things. First, comparison is the thief of joy. If you want to lack joy, therefore be unhappy and frustrated. Always try to measure yourself against others, without context. That's the recipe for a low joy life. But there is a comparison you should be making.
Speaker 2:There's a great book on this. It's called the Gap and the Gain, and so the gap is what? Looking forward to the horizon, the goal, the ideal scenario, the person you're measuring against, and listen. You can be motivated by other people, but not compare yourself to them, because you don't have context for the journey they've been on already, silently or in public. But the gain is when you look back, and so when you fall in love with the process and the work, you constantly can measure, looking back and say what's the gain, what's the progress that I've made and who am I becoming? And so my focus is who do I need to become? To the extent that I have not achieved the material outcomes that I want business growth, revenue, profits, net worth, whatever you want to measure it upon for me when I accept personal responsibility is I have yet to become the person that I need to be, and so I therefore the only way to become the person that I need to be, and so I. Therefore, the only way to become the person that I need to be, I must be committed to the work of the coming and, and the measurement I come is is, is is looking back, who was I before and how much have I gained in becoming who I am now? And and and having the gratitude for that and that that keeps you going, and, and I think the balance between those two things is, you know, is, uh, ed Milet has a great line on this.
Speaker 2:He said he calls it blissful dissatisfaction when I, when I look in the game right, um, I'm, I'm blissful. Oh man, look, how far I've come. You know I'm not where I want to be, but I have. I mean, like in America, top 1% right In the world, like 1% of 1%, right, and you look at it from that perspective, you're like, oh my, I have to be grateful for that. But I'm dissatisfied. That's the blissful part. I'm dissatisfied because I know, compared to when I compare myself to yesterday and who I'm become today and today and who I could be, well, I got work to do, I got work to do, and so, but the gap that I live in is in my own self and my identity and the person I need to be to earn what I want to, to, to be worthy of the abundance that I feel I deserve. I'm going to prove that worthiness by becoming the leader, the, the, uh, the person of impact, the value creator in this world.
Speaker 2:Um was Zig Ziglar right Said you know, uh, if, uh, if you help us as enough people get what they want. Uh, if, uh, if you help as enough people get what they want, you'll get what you want. And in doing that, uh, to help more people, I need to become the person, um, that is that valuable to be, of that resource to to the level of people I want to serve, for the level of wealth I'd like to achieve I love that and I think that speaks as well to the, to the, the be.
Speaker 1:Do you not have where most people love in the the gap. They're living in the gap constantly and they feel like they haven't got what they need and they need to do more, and you just touched on it. Well, who do I need to become like? Who is it that I need to be? What are the feelings that I need to take on board in order for me to be that person? What are the actions, what are the habits? What are the things that I need to do in order for me to be? Most people think, well, if I just do more, I can have more and then I can get to be that person. Instead of going no, I need to be that person now and I need to fall in love with that process. I fall in love with those actions and keep doing those things that get me to be that person. I think that's really important and it's a fantastic book as well. The gap and the gain. What do you love most about business and doing what you do, jim?
Speaker 2:unlocking the potential in other people, taking what I've grown through and become and understood and realized in my own power, and helping other people find that in themselves and bear the fruit of becoming. I was with some of my advisors, um, last week and the thing that I was like really getting clear on something. The vulnerable piece is like if you want to earn the respect of others, first earn it with yourself. And that just sounds weird and it's like you know, like I don't respect myself, not at the level you you know, if you really were like like just had this authentic level of just proud, like I'm so proud of how I show up. I'm grateful for who I am, for my family and what I can do through the work that I commit to and the discipline that I have.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing to do is to help others find that in themselves and then the fruit that it bears for them in their self-respect, and then it's magical. You earn your self-respect. You do the daily disciplines, even when no's watching. Um, that compounds into that public respect and and and and. The gift is is that you receive this admiration and and feel that, realize you're an inspiration to other people and you get that self-respect, but there's nothing more rewarding than the respect of yourself and your family fantastic man to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. What is it like running a business with a newborn? So Jim just had a newborn kid and he also has another kid called Max. So a lot of the times for people looking on and dispersing social media, they see businesses and maybe see young guys in social media doing all this shit. It's completely different running a business and running a company and leading people with a family. What are those challenges, jim, and how do you kind of bring that all together?
Speaker 2:the first thing that immediately comes to mind is if you have great communication, like we were talking about earlier, talking about the business, but it's you're one person and great communication in business is person, and a great communication in business is no different than great communication in your personal life. And so, um, I have a great relationship and we have great communication and, um, we, we communicate how to support each other and and and uh, you know, a great lesson I had in relationship was that it's not 50, 50, it's 100, 100. Um, and I'm not asking you to fill in half the gap. I'm going to be 100% of of what I think I can bring to the relationship and the support and the household, um and uh, and if I do that, maybe I'll reap what I sow, but I don't have the expectation because I can only control how I show up. And so I think that just commitment and responsibility, like you know, creates greatness. But we divide and conquer, and I think one of the things that makes it it's hard, it's hard but it's the most worthwhile thing you could do is to is to pour into kids. I think it's a lot like building a business, you know, you're trying to grow them into.
Speaker 2:I often say, in business, your goal is to build an asset. What's an asset? Something that perpetuates and increases its value on its own without you. And I think raising kids is the same You're trying to raise that kid so eventually they go out in the world and be valuable and increase their own value without you, build a family, have a career and increase their own value without you, right, build a family, have a career, build a life of abundance for themselves. So I think they're very similar. They're just as hard.
Speaker 2:There's so much energy that goes into building an asset, a business, that is an asset, something you could walk away from or sell and it can teach to perpetuate. And the same thing with a kid that eventually you can know your kid goes out in the world and it's going to be fine, they're going to, they're going to be valuable for themselves and for their life and for the marketplace, and they'll grow as well. Um, to do that, yeah, 18 years of energy in, in, in in childhood and parenting, and same thing in business. And so I think there's so much overlap and, um, you know, but the thing I think that allows me to do both and take on both and and and for my, my wife and my kids to feel like I'm still present and supporting is that I don't have an expectation of what makes a day a good day or a bad day in parenting or business. A good day or a bad day in parenting or business. I just show up and I roll and um.
Speaker 1:You know people was saying it's like a six week old, it's like you getting any sleep?
Speaker 2:yeah, I sleep, I sleep, you know. Hey, my trick is I go to sleep when I put my son to bed at eight o'clock, and so if I can get up at four and get some work in because I had a good night's sleep you had enough sleep between eight and four, not a good night, just enough then great, I get up at four. Uh, last night there was a few things. I got up at six, right, still got up, took care of my son and so, but. But I don't sit there. You know, that's back to that expectation.
Speaker 2:That comparison is a thief of joy. Well, I don't compare to how I think it needs to be an expectation. I just say, man, life is wonderful, kids are amazing. This is hard, but it's worth it and I'm worthy of the work, and so I'll just show up every day and just give it my best, and tomorrow will be another day. If it was harder than maybe it could have been, I'll grow through it, learn through it. We'll all get better. And so, um, I do it. I think I just don't have a lot of expectations of what makes a day a hard day or an easy day, a good day, or an easy day, a good day or a bad day. I mean in. When I review the gain, I say, man, that was a great day, what made that great? But I don't look forward saying, man, I don't get x hours of sleep, then I'm screwed yeah, because then you're giving yourself, you're giving yourself shit automatically straight away.
Speaker 2:I think that's why, by the evidence of the questions that I get lately, that people it's like you got two kids. Now business is like that man, how is he? I was on a call with some of my guys recently and they're like, can we just give it up for jim? You know, he had a kid two week, three weeks ago and he's just here like like nothing happened. I'm like, yeah, I mean and and that's what, and I think that's most people's perspective and and I'm just saying, well, I'm just built for the work, um, I'm I don't know and and and the thing that I'll just caveat.
Speaker 2:This is weird for me to say, but um, and emotional for me to share as well. But you know when, uh, from the time from two weeks prior to my daughter being born, my second um to about six weeks after, we had people in my house um, support my mom, my mom, my parents, my in-laws, youlaws, siblings and stuff like that, my wife told me last weekend. She said every single one of them when they left they said I don't know how he does all the stuff he does for you. I don't know how he has the business and does all these things at the house, takes care of my son, does the dishes.
Speaker 2:Listen, I'm not perfect. I'm not some superhero. I just try my best. That's all I do. I just try my best. I just try to show up. I try to show up 100%. I try to show up. If I was the other person with gratitude of everything that she does, how could I make it a little bit easier by showing up 100%? Um, and, apparently could I make it a little bit easier by showing up 100%, and apparently it's noticed, and so that's my secret, I just try.
Speaker 1:Love it, man, give it my best. Yeah, I love that and I love that, that philosophy and that perception, like if you were to take that into life, if you were to take that into business, and if you were to approach what you're doing and your goals and your ambitions and the vision that you have, with an expectation for it to just go the way it goes, not for it to be a certain way or in a certain time frame, but for it to just be the way that it actually goes. I think that perspective it's not easy to do, but that perspective can automatically begin to give you a lot of flow, can automatically begin to give you a lot of flow, can automatically begin to give you a lot of peace and contentment and fulfillment yeah, and I think it's important to say that, um, I grew to this point.
Speaker 2:I grew to this point. I would say in in my life, um, you know, I've without unpacking a lot of baggage, I've I haven't had the best relationship always and I wasn't known as the um, this person who was like, who was showered with admiration by other family members to say I wish my husband showed up the way he did. I wasn't, I didn't always deserve that, I would have gotten that in the past and but it's because of that that you know, same thing I talked about in business, that that, that constant reflection of impersonal responsibility. You know a mentor of mine. He says, uh, learning is the uh. Learning is defined by new information, different behavior. If you get new information and your behavior doesn't change, then you didn't learn anything. Because if you did, you would have something, would have changed about your behavior. And so for me, I was just pursued and part of the. We used to not have good communication in a relationship and so I didn't get the information I needed to adapt my behavior. Hey, how am I showing up right? And then they just don't teach you these things. I certainly wasn't modeled.
Speaker 2:You know my parents. I have incredible longevity in marriage and says that you know my, my, my mom's parents, 69 years, 51 weeks, married until my grandfather passed, so 70 years married. My dad 60 plus years before my grandfather passed. My parents about the hit 50 years. I have multiple aunts and uncles well into the 50 years marriage. It's just the norm. But I the difference with them was it comes from a different time in my experience is that when they got married, that commitment in the culture, you know whether it was, you know, more, uh, more of religious culture or you know, and driven by that, um, but but there was just a different, there was different meaning a level of commitment till death do us part in that generation. That it just isn't today. It is death, do us part or discomfort, you know. And so I think that cultural shift has exposed the necessity for a development of EQ, emotional intelligence, development of of eq, emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2:And I've realized this because when I had relationship challenges and rough patches and stuff like that and I tried to explain how I'm working with to my parents and my family member, the language does not compute, it's, it's like they, they, they respond like in a very confusing way and I was like you just don't you there, isn't. You just didn't need commitment, was enough before. We had so't? You just didn't need commitment was enough before. We had so much commitment that we didn't need communication.
Speaker 2:And now, today, you need the communication to embolden the commitment, to make your business partner or your life partner show up and say man, am I grateful for this and for it to be so flourishing and there'd be such abundance and joy, connection, community, whether in your business or your life, that others would would, would would be compelled to comment uh, that's how you know you're doing it right. Uh, I, I found, um, it's a gift. I think I get emotional every time. I thought but because that's how, that's why I show up the way I do to my team, to my clients, to my family, is because I just want them all to. You know, I taught you talk about status. I want them to see, see me how I see me, which is, um, someone who just wants to create value for others.
Speaker 1:Fantastic I think which you touched on there as well too, is important. I think there was a fear of condemnation of breaking that commitment years ago in relationships and marriages and stuff, which probably isn't there now as much, which again brings in a real sense of connection and communication that you know that you're in a relationship because you want to be in that relationship, where there's no fear of actually breaking that relationship down or condemnation of breaking that relationship down. Um, before we go, jim, what I would love to ask you is so the podcast is called conversations that matter. If you were to have a conversation with yourself, maybe as a kid or at a time when you're being challenged, or at any time, what would that conversation be? What would you say to yourself that you would have appreciated back then?
Speaker 2:It's not about trying to be, to see you a certain way. It's about becoming so authentic in how you wish to be seen in the world that they would be telling you your truth. I think when I was, when I was young, I the same thing I just said now, which is I just want people to see me as a valuable part of their life. I think in the beginning I tried to posture and convince people that that was the case, which is to to externalize where that value gets experienced or created or perceived. I just have to convince them to see it a certain way. And the difference is is it's an internal thing, it's in a I don't know who says it, I think somebody.
Speaker 2:I recently heard it quoted by somebody else. I was like, is that true? But it's this quote of light yourself on fire, so that you would burn so bright that people would come from miles away to see you burn. To see you burn and in positive light, to be that light of inspiration, to see you burn and in positive like, to be that light of inspiration. And so that is an internal journey of development of this, like development of this fire, a fire of whatever you wish to be in the world, that fire of value and inspiration and joy, and and to where you. You get to the point where your work is what speaks. The way where your work is what speaks, the way you show up, is what speaks to others, and it speaks so loudly and it's so compelling and it's so real to them that they are compelled to share with you who you are to them.
Speaker 1:That's the most rewarding thing who you are to them.
Speaker 2:That's the most rewarding thing. It's rewarding to hear it from all areas, from your wife as well as in business. I'm looking over off the camera here to just a stack of cards of people that I receive from my clients and how I've been that for them in their life. Um, that's why I do what I do and it's about but I don't. I don't do it. That's the reward of what I do is probably a better way to say it. Um, I do it just to be authentically valuable to others, and when you've done it right, people are compelled to say the truth back to you fantastic.
Speaker 1:And what I'll say to people listening and about jim is that doesn't just happen. That requires work. And what I'll say about jim is jim shows up with myself every single week, has them for the last six months and, as I said before, I had another coach for five and a half years showed up every single week and it's that wellness and it's that drive and that desire and it's that openness I think, a lot of the times to continue to work on yourself, to continue to develop and evolve and learn more about yourself that gets you to be that light, that gets you to be that inspiration. It doesn't just happen. I think you have to like yourself, jim, like myself, like other people. You have to be willing to also do that work in order for that to happen.
Speaker 1:So what I would say is for anybody that's listening in, that is thinking about creating those changes, for anybody that's listening in that are maybe looking at Jim and his business and seeing where he's got to right now, it doesn't just happen. There's a commitment. There's a commitment, there's a discipline, there's a lot of work that goes into it and you have to have that openness and wellness to be able to do that work, jim, for people that are interested and know a bit more about yourself and your business and what you have to share. Where do you want me to send them to? Where's the best place to find you?
Speaker 2:You probably go to our website. Um, that's juiceboxcom, but our juicebox has no. I j-u-c-e-b-o-xcom. You can get to pretty much anything else from there, like our youtube or other things, so yeah, you're also on linkedin as.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, jim, thank you very much for the conversation. It was fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're quite welcome. It was enjoyable Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Speak soon.