The Seamus Fox Podcast.
This podcast has been created to share real life experiences from inspiring people in all walks of life, those who have engineered change in their own lives through a shift in thinking and beliefs. I want to share my own journey and have others share theirs so that it can help inspire others to crete the internal changes thats needed to create long lasting life changes.
The Seamus Fox Podcast.
From Family Business to Industry Leader: Mark Hutchinson's Journey of Risk, Growth, and Perseverance
Step into the shoes of a CEO as we sit down with Mark Hutchinson, a man who turned his family's agricultural equipment business into a thriving enterprise. We explore Mark's roots in Killaray, where his father's engineering expertise inspired him deeply. Mark candidly shares stories of spirited debates with his dad, navigating economic hardships, and the moment he took the reins of the family business. His journey is a testament to how familial influence and a willingness to embrace change can shape a formidable leader.
Mark's story is one of perseverance and growth, even in the face of failures. He opens up about learning from past missteps in the aerospace industry and the vital role of mentors and supportive relationships throughout his journey. We discuss the power of vulnerability, setting clear goals, and the contagious nature of positivity and ambition. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or a seasoned business leader, Mark's insights on seeking help and building relationships offer invaluable advice for thriving in the competitive world of business.
So welcome back to the podcast and conversations that matter. Today I have a guest on with me who is Mr Mark Hutchinson. Mark, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, seamus, delighted to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good to have you on. So obviously Mark and myself know each other. Well, not obviously, but Mark and myself know each other. I've had the good fortune of working with Mark over the last five or six months in a coaching aspect, and what I wanted to do was get Mark on the podcast and share his years of experience as being a CEO. But I suppose to take it right back to the start. First, mark, what I do with all guests is what was it like as a young Mark growing up? Where did you grow up? Where are you from and what were those early inspirations for Mark Hutchison?
Speaker 2:Okay, no problem. So I'll try and give you a bit of an insight into my life. So, brought up, born and raised in Killaray I've never left the place till today. So, brought up in a family with my brother and my sister and my family, with my brother and my sister and my family, I suppose from a very early age I was really interested in my father's business, which was a local engineering company. My dad supplied a lot of agricultural based equipment to local farmers and gates and railings and all that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:And I suppose from an early age one one recollection I have he worked really, really, really hard. Unfortunately that work eventually was to the detriment of his health. But you know he did everything. We remember him running around, you know taking orders over the phone, going and pricing work. You know we always joke that he took us out on a Saturday but there was not always an ulterior motive. So he would say, oh, have we run to do to Toon Bridge? And we're like, like, why do we want to go to toon bridge on a saturday, dad, oh, there's a man looking for gates measured here. So we always had a wee joke that there was an ulterior motive.
Speaker 2:But look, brought up in a good family with a good work ethos and I suppose that that rubbed off on myself. I went through school always knowing that I wanted to join my dad in the business. I worked here every Saturday. He always worked from 8 to 12 on the Saturday and all through the school holidays and I suppose that the culmination of that is I did my A-levels at school. I decided I wanted to do them, but I decided not to go to university and I came straight into the business. So that was in 1997. So it seems like an awful long time ago now.
Speaker 2:And the story I always tell was there was myself, my dad and three other people at that stage in the business, so it was a very small business. If anybody sneezed, my dad knew about it and he always joked as well. He said that Mark's intention when I came into the business was just to spend any money that I had, uh, gathered up over the over the previous, you know, 15, 20 odd years. So, um, it wasn't just my, my whole intention, but I did. I did make a fairly good shot of it and we invested in some, some different equipment. Um, whenever I come into the business, um really challenging time for the agricultural community. There was foot and mouth disease, there was mad cow disease, there was all these kinds of things that were basically meaning that the local farming community didn't have the money to spend and the business was plateauing. So it was. It was circa 500 000 turnover per year at that time, which was a good, a good business. As I say, my dad did everything I came in and I wanted to change things.
Speaker 2:I had my own ideas, I wanted to diversify.
Speaker 1:And that's what we did. I suppose that probably created a lot of challenges for your father as well too, because he was so used to doing things in a certain way. Everything was maybe in his mindset and how he ran the business, so there probably would have been a lot of challenge for him for you to come in and go. You can and knew what you wanted to do, to take things forward, but he's like, well, hold on a wee minute. So what challenge for you both at that time, mark.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and I suppose the old cliche that comes out every lunchtime because I loved it with my mom and dad at that period of time as well, every lunchtime, because I loved, I loved it with my mom and dad at that period of time as well. Every lunchtime was an informal board meeting. So we're having our lunch, but we were chatting about things in the business. Oh, we, you know, we locked horns a lot. We had plenty of debates with plenty of arguments, but we always said that we would do that away from the business, you know, away from the other employees, away from potential customers, suppliers and whatnot, and that was really important. So my mum, she had to referee every lunchtime, which was a really bizarre dynamic, but with lots of good debates, and obviously my dad was just trying to steer me in the right direction.
Speaker 2:I suppose for me a key thing, and I still hold an awful lot of respect for what my dad did, because at a very early age then I was only in the business about a year and a half and he basically said to me look, I'm, I'm handing over the reins to you, you know it's, it's yours now to to make and do do what you wish with, and I'm, to this day, I'm very, very thankful for that, you know I see a lot of.
Speaker 2:I see a lot of owners and they just can't let go and I feel that letting go piece is so critical For your own development. I always said to somebody whenever you make a mistake and it hits you the old term was when it hits you in the pocket but whenever you make a mistake and it's painful to you, to me that's when you learn most, and I had a lot of learning to do at that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. We, we do. We learn most from our challenges. Um for sure, mark. So if you're looking back, then I suppose you try and take it back a wee bit again. The business is what, over 50 years old now, set up in uh in 1971. Yeah so what were the like, the foundations or the things that you looked at within your dad that he was representing, like the traits, the things that he did, that you took on board that was crucial to you, kind of taking the business and evolving it even further.
Speaker 2:I suppose the one thing for me, there was a huge level of trust. My dad always trusted people. You know he worked a lot of people locally. You know people people obviously at certain times maybe couldn't pay him or for whatever reason and and he had a high level of trust, you know again, which I really, really respected. I would say, unfortunately now it's it's hard nowadays to have that level of trust with people, but there was a high level of trust there. They were in the local community.
Speaker 2:He trusted respect, um, for people. He always wanted to serve. He didn't like saying no to people. He always liked to say yes and really that for me was, you know, was a huge trait that he had. He also served locally on the local council and you know he always wanted to serve everyone across all areas of the community. Um, he he passed away, unfortunately, when the company turned 50 years old in 2021 and you know many people that came to his wake recall stories of you know how he'd helped them, you know, get rehoused, for example, or how he brought them gifts at christmas and whatnot. So he was a very caring man and very kind um, you know, and that that shone through in his, in his day-to-day life as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant. I think that's so important, especially for, like, they have that sense of community and they have that sense of trust. But the big thing you said there is serving like no, serving the community, serving other people, making sure that you're doing the best thing possible. What were the things that you learned from them then, mark, in terms of that you needed to maybe let go of or you needed to get rid of in order for you to evolve and grow?
Speaker 2:The big thing that he really struggled with was delegation, you know, delegation of tasks. I think he came to that realization as maybe his health was deteriorating, like he was diagnosed with Parkinson's at the age of 53, which is obviously quite young. But you know, he realized then that, you know, he should have maybe delegated a little bit more. As I said earlier, he did everything himself, from answering the phone to sending out invoices. He eventually then realized that that wasn't sustainable and he brought other help and support in. I suppose for me, the real valuable lesson out of that was you can't do it all yourself. You've got to trust and you've got to delegate things out to other people If you want to grow your business successfully.
Speaker 2:You know, um, I suppose the other underlying thing for my dad he always wanted to do the best by his family. You know he, he worked really, really hard, you know, to make sure that that we, we had what we needed, um, you know, and he had. He had goals as well. You know, nowadays we talk about writing goals down and stuff. I would say, if we look back, he hadn't any goals written down, but he had goals as well. Nowadays we talk about writing goals down and stuff. I would say, if we look back, he hadn't any goals written down, but he had goals that he wanted to move to a larger house and he wanted to improve himself and improve his family predominantly. But family were at the center and the core of everything, all the decisions he made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant, so you take over then, mark, when did he hand over the reins? Did you say 97?
Speaker 2:I started 97, so it was sort of 98, early 99 um yeah I.
Speaker 2:I took over, so the reins were mine. So, but quite a, quite a daunting prospect, if I'm honest at that, at that young age you know we're 18, 19, um, but for me that was that was a really, really steep learning curve. I mean, I started off in the business. I went right, started in the shop floor, did a lot of things myself as well.
Speaker 2:I suppose at that stage I was really able to interact with both employees, suppliers, customers and really, as I said to many people, when you're dealing with, if you like, the general public and it was nearly like a trade counter People coming on off the street, um, you know, before we diversified, um, and when you're dealing with those people, you learn a lot. Um, you learn you know some people their, their word is their bond and you can trust them and there's other people you couldn't heed one thing that they tell you. So it's, it's very, you know, it's very, very um. It's a great educational process, or it was for me in terms of that. But I think for me at the early stages it was building a good relationship with those people closest to you and building a good team around you.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. If you look back at that time then, mark, did you have a vision for what you've currently created and what you're currently creating at that time, or was it very much kind of in the day-to-day process and starting to move forward and get a grip on things?
Speaker 2:At that time, it was simply day-to-day. I had no BHAG goal or vision, as we would now call it. At that point it was just day-to-day and month-to-month. But what I did have was a passion.
Speaker 2:Passion, a drive and a determination um to continually make things better um and I remember somebody coming in from I think it was led you back in the day before Invest NI and they said well, how do you gauge if you're doing okay? And I said I look at the bank balance every day and if it's okay or growing, I know it's all right if it's going back the way. Now that that in today's terms you just you wouldn't dream of doing that, it just wouldn't work. But it was a very simple and a very basic One of the key things that we did. We started investing in really good equipment and I suppose for me you know the justification of that I didn't have a finance director to back me up at that point.
Speaker 2:That was all very much cigarette packet accounting. You knew machine cost x. You know the running costs were y. You needed to bring in. You know x plus y plus plus z in terms of business to try and make that cover itself and that that alone was enough drive and determination. You know solving problems for customers was, was a huge part and continues to be a huge part of what we do today you know going and speaking to the customer right.
Speaker 2:What are your issues, what are your problems? How can we solve those for you? How can we help? And I, I had a really good um ability to to have a look at a piece of equipment, a piece of technology and see very quickly how that could help ultimately our customer to do things better and therefore was able to invest. And my finance director now he would, he would, he would not be pleased with with my accounting practices back then, but, um, that that was the way you did it, that was the way you grew.
Speaker 2:Um, my dad, I remember my dad the first machine we bought, uh, was a laser machine that cost 350 000. And my dad at that time said, look, we cannot afford this. And I said, dad, look, if we wait until we're able to afford this, it's going to be too late. We're going to have to take out some finance. At that time we took out asset finance. My poor dad didn't sleep for weeks. I was fine, I slept very well because it wasn't my money. But you know, we made that, if you like, ballsy move at that time to invest in that equipment that was able to run unmanned, and I suppose that that's been at the at the core of the business since even invest in equipment, invest in people, invest in the processes and grow along the way.
Speaker 1:See, if you're looking at that, denmark and your followers, kind of a hesitant, but you're willing to take that chance and kind of grow and even though you didn't have a clear vision of what you wanted to create or what you wanted to create or what you wanted to create, where do you think that came from within you? Like they go, do you know what? No, we just need to take a chance. We actually need to make sure that we're financing this and moving forward and growing. What was that within you, mark, that was making you create those habits and take those actions?
Speaker 2:Look, I would say it was a determination that I suppose in the early days came from my dad, when he was growing a business from scratch. And, again, of a great level of respect, he set up and grew a business from nothing. I've simply taken over the business and grown it from something he had originally created. So he very much had that determination and that drive to invest to make things work. But I suppose, look, in business you have to take risks. You know if you don't take risks you won't do anything really. So you have to take risks. I suppose it's just making sure that they're calculated risks and they're not going to ultimately put you out of business. But definitely that drive and determination came from my mom and dad, for sure, definitely that driving determination came from my mom and dad for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic. So as things started to evolve, then marketing started, the business starts to grow and you're starting to move forward. What were some of those early challenges in running that business and as a CEO and making things grow? What were some of the things that you faced at that time that, for people listening in, any business that are looking to grow and expand could look at and make changes within themselves? What were some of the changes you needed to make, maybe internally, in order for things to grow?
Speaker 2:for yourself, mark at that time I suppose, like all these things are great, with the benefit of hindsight and I suppose I've.
Speaker 2:I've tried to educate myself to a certain level, or even over the last 20 years, but I suppose really in those early days it's about having a really good team and bringing people with you, and I now know that the best way to do that is have a vision for the future. So you know to to attract, retain and develop employees in particular, you need to have that vision, and that was something I didn't have until quite recently, um, but to me, to cement a really good team around you, you need that vision and you need people to to help you along the journey yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's having people buy into what it is that you can see by having people buy in their vision. Yeah yeah, absolutely yeah yeah, what do you think, then, mark kind of holds most people back from actually creating that, because right now you've what? Over 180 employees in the business, yeah, yeah, so they have 180 employees who are coming in to create a vision for you as well too. What do you think is the thing that maybe stops people from expanding and getting to that level and moving forward?
Speaker 2:I would say a large proportion of it has to do with fear. You know, fear for the unknown. Um, you know, obviously, when you, when you start to employ large numbers of people, you have to make sure that you've got business coming in to support that. Um, you know, you're very much responsible for not only the people who work to you but all their immediate families as well. So it has a huge impact. So for me, you know, it's the fear. I would say maybe lack of ambition would be a bit of a barrier to growth as well. People, you know Northern Ireland has been synonymous with it for years. People get to a certain level. It's a lifestyle business. People are happy with what they have. There's absolutely no issue with that. But people just then get content, get complacent.
Speaker 1:Um, but in my mind, if you're, if you're not growing the business, you're, you're going back the way okay, 100 and and yeah, that's so true, because people get to a certain point and then they slip into a comfort zone yeah um, and then they get complacent and then all of a sudden things start to kind of dwindle away. What did you do then, in those early stages mark, to make sure that you were kind of, I suppose, getting yourself around the the right type of people that were making that happen?
Speaker 2:um, I suppose for me, staying close to them you know being being very much, uh, interacting with the team, um, you know, making sure that you were supporting them in whatever way you could. But I suppose, as time goes on, then you have to take a step back from that and delegate that responsibility then to others to lead others as well. But that at the early days, staying very close, knowing what was going on, you've got to wear in a small business, as you know, you've got to wear so many hats, you've got to know that the money's coming in, uh, the money's going out. You know people are being paid, um, you know that you just have so many things to do on a daily basis and I suppose then, as you start to grow the business, then you've got to delegate those tasks to someone else you mentioned on linkedin last week, mark about um, an experience you had in business that you learned about Gillespie from back in 2006.
Speaker 1:Was that right? 2014 or 2015, but yeah, it was two years ago now. All right, okay, yeah, go on, tell me a wee bit more about that. What was the business venture and then, what was the challenge and what were the things that you learned personally from that from yourself and in business, mark?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that one in particular. So I suppose, if I dial back before that, as I mentioned to you, we invested in a lot of equipment, you know, with sheer determination, maybe a wee bit of good fortune, good luck thrown in, you made it work, you do another one, you make it work, you do another one, you make it work. And I suppose then you get into a bit of a role and you think, look, you know, everything I do here is going to turn out okay. And I would say nearly, dare I say, even a bit of complacency sets in and say, oh, you know, let's just do it, let's just do it, let's just do it.
Speaker 2:I suppose, in that, in that particular instance, you know, it was a dream of mine to go into a different industry, um, which was the aerospace industry I saw as a, you know, a really key industry moving forward, etc. Um, and I suppose we, we went into that um, was I challenged enough by the people around me? Probably not at that time, um, but we went into that. You know, we made a big investment and it didn't work out. And I suppose then, coming to the realization that that didn't work, um, I think, as I, as I mentioned in my post, I held, uh, held a great deal of resentment to, to both people who were around me, um, you know, and others as well, you know, against that decision.
Speaker 2:The big, the big thing for me, after speaking to some coaches and mentors etc. Was well, look, flip that in its head, you know. Look at the benefits of doing that. Look at the what were the positives come out of that. And when I, when I slowly started to do that, I could see all the positives that came out of it huge learning experience, absolutely brilliant. Didn't put us out of business. Brilliant, you know, cost us a lot of money, yes, but the learnings and the takeaways from that then really helped me to grow the business in other directions. And sometimes you have to make those tough decisions, you know the wrong thing would have been to just continue on with that.
Speaker 2:It really would have been detrimental to our main business.
Speaker 1:So a lot of, a lot of really really positive learnings from that um, and I'm I'm now thankful for that experience yeah, everything's a way of getting us realigned again, um, to get us back on course again, to get real growth in the areas that are probably more important for us than the areas that we thought that were that were important yep yeah, but at that time mark it was probably challenging.
Speaker 1:At that time you hadn't got those quote the coaches and mentors like, look at the positives. So, yeah, what you're doing on a day-to-day basis to kind of get yourself going again, because even though you can look back with hindsight and you can see that there's plenty of positives on it, at that time sometimes that's painful and something that's challenging I think for me that the big benefit was at that time I had I had good people around me, you know, my brother included.
Speaker 2:So my brother is with me in the business now as well, which I'm very thankful for, you know, having having family in the business with you, um, I, I went through a period of time where I completely fell out of love with the business. You know, I held resentment against it, I felt that I'd given my all to it and that just kicked me in the backside for want of a better expression and I was feeling a great deal of resentment and I completely fell out and I disconnected myself completely from the business. As I say, thankfully I had good people around me who were able to continue on and, you know, keep the business running. But I, you know, I just fell completely out of love with the business and thought, you know, I need to do something different here. What is it? So I went through quite a long period of time of trying to find my feet again and thankfully did, coming out of that.
Speaker 1:Was it like a lot of confidence or something you felt more at that time?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was all based around the whole feeling of you know everything, all the decisions I've made up to now, you seem seemingly worked out really good, and this one went really badly wrong. You know why? Was that? Was it me? Was it somebody else? Was it you know?
Speaker 1:so, trying to, trying to go through that whole thought process, I suppose the thing for me at that time yeah, I went through a lot of those challenges without seeking any help in terms of a coach, um, which I should have done sooner um but as soon as I did seek that help was able to see them the other side of it yeah, um, yeah, 100, and sometimes, like when you're going through those challenges, like maybe that was your kind of first test of like so-called failure, because everything had kind of been working for you up until that point yeah and then it's like whoa, what happened? Have I lost my mind?
Speaker 2:it's touch here yeah, exactly, I very much viewed it as as a massive failure, you know, and this was catastrophic and and all that at the time. But I suppose that's the emotions that you go through with something as big as that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, and I think it's just important to even voice that, because people looking in will see the business where it's at right now but not experience what that's like in a day-to-day basis having maybe plowed so much money in a business and an adventure and it not working out, and how you deal with that on a personal level, but, more importantly, how you bunch back after that. What kind of got you re-inspired again then mark, at that time they start moving forward again um, maybe the realization that at that stage I was actually unemployable.
Speaker 2:Nobody, nobody would have me, because I was quite a big driver to get you out of bed in the morning that, uh, look, this is, this is it. You've got to go for it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean I joke about that.
Speaker 2:But you know, for me, you know, getting that drive and determination back. It's key that you have that in business. I get it, people lose it.
Speaker 2:But you have to find a way of getting back on that track again you know, especially in business, when you've, you know, when you're employing large numbers of people and they're relying on you, you, you have to be a really good leader, and I suppose that's, that's the big thing that I've learned, um, in the in the last couple of years, even that if you don't look after yourself mentally, physically, you know, how can you expect to look after other people? You know, and that is a really key lesson that I've taken, uh, still work in progress, as you well know, but, um, and maybe you never fully get there, but I think you've got to be really conscious that you've got a. You've got to look after yourself, uh, first, and then, you know, lead others second after that. So I'm not not from a selfish perspective or whatever, but you've just got to be, you've got to be on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent, and it's. It's so true you do. You have to lead yourself first, and then, by leading yourself first, as you said, you're able to lead others in a better way, because you're improving yourself, you're feeling better about yourself. What, what other things would you say then, mark as well, too, to like those things aside, what other things do you say that it would take like to be a good leader in business, to be a good leader, to grow a company and to keep moving forward?
Speaker 2:have a coach and mentor and that this is not just solely a plug for yourself, seamus.
Speaker 2:All the other mentors are available yeah but you know, to me, having that coach, look at a very basic level, I what I have found through the years there are a lot of people out there who are willing to help you and you don't necessarily have to pay them. There are people out there. If you offer them a coffee, I found, if you offer them breakfast, lunch or dinner, most people find it hard to say no, um, but there, there are people out there who you can go to and seek advice. You know, just put your hands up and say I've got a problem, I would like help with it.
Speaker 2:I think that that piece around the whole vulnerability and just, you know that you don't always get it right. You're not always, you're not always right. I'm just asking those people and it's a matter of finding them. People go. I, I don't know anybody like that. I, you know, left the phone ring. Somebody, everybody has enough people in their contacts to know somebody who will know somebody else who'd be able to help them. To me, it's asking for that help, reaching out for that. For me, coaches and mentors have been a key aspect of my business life now for the last probably 10 to 15 years in one way shape or form.
Speaker 2:And I suppose they evolve over a period of time depending on what you need. It's a bit like building a team in the business as well. I go out, I look for the best people that can help me, and things that I'm not good at or I'm not strong at, you look for the best people, but that, for me, has been a huge learning, as I say that there are people out there who who will give up their time. Might be half an hour, might be an hour, but what you can take from those people, I think that the fact as well, that you know, no matter what problem you have, that there's more than likely somebody else has faced that problem you you've just got to find that person and ask them yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I think that is crucial, and not necessarily definitely having to hire a coach, etc. But I think for most leaders, it's having that sense of vulnerability, mark, that you mentioned being okay with knowing that I don't know all the answers. I don't have all the answers and I've got a team there or I've got employees there or I've got other people there around me that I can maybe go and ask the question of and maybe they can give me a different perspective and I can move forward, because the entrepreneur space, business space, can be a very lonely space. You get stuck in your own head and you just keep ruminating in those thoughts. So I definitely think, like you hit the nail on the head, they're having that vulnerability to be able to reach out and maybe drop the ego sometimes and go right now I need help from someone else yeah, yeah, that that is.
Speaker 2:That is 100, right, I suppose. Also surrounding yourself with, with energetic people um, you know, not, not energy vampires, people who are going to take your energy, but people who are going to give you energy and support you. Yeah, I have a number of network groups that I have. I did a program last year, as you know, that called scale x. That was fantastic because the people that you meet in that, the energy you get from them, you know, working with yourself, you have a high level of energy.
Speaker 2:It rubs off on people yeah whereas if you're always stuck and you're surrounded by negative people it's the old saying you you become the sum of the five people you spend the most time with 100% Very very true. You know, if it's all negativity you will become negative. You know you've got to try and keep that energy up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% Fantastic, mark. So for someone that's starting out in your industry let's say they're kind of where you were many years ago what advice would you give them specifically in your industry that are looking to start out, looking to expand and looking to grow? What's a couple of key pieces of advice that you would give?
Speaker 2:them. Be curious, ask plenty of questions, go and visit people Key part of our growth. We went to visit companies that we aspired to be like. You'll find that people are very open open especially if you're not directly competing with them. Um. So that, be curious, you know. Look after yourself, um. Hire a coach or mentor, or at least have someone that you can lift the phone to. Um. Those would be some of the things for me that are. You know, always ask questions, always be inquisitive yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1:And again, that comes back to kind of something that you touched on earlier, which is just like having that sense of vulnerability. A lot of the times they just go out and ask questions and meet people Okay, fantastic. Last question, Mark, what I always ask every person that comes on to the podcast if you were to have a conversation with yourself at any time, maybe as a young Mark, or like one of the biggest challenges you face in your business what would you say to yourself? What conversation would you have with yourself that you didn't have at that time?
Speaker 2:I think, in facing a big challenge, take a deep breath, calm yourself down. You know have a think about the situation. You know speak to someone, reach out for help on it. You know have a have a think about about the situation. You know speak to someone, reach out for help on it, you know. So don't, don't try and tackle it all yourself yeah, definitely not and for me, always, always have that vision or a goal I think it's crucial. You set those, you set those goals in your, in your vision.
Speaker 1:So yeah, fantastic. And for people that are interested in knowing more about yourself, mark, and what you do in your business, et cetera, where's the best place to find you?
Speaker 2:If you, if you just search for me on LinkedIn, just Mark Hutchinson or a company is just under Hutchinson as as the best way usually. So we're we're pretty active on on LinkedIn, find that a good platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic, mark, really enjoyed the conversation. Man, fantastic, thank you for having me speak soon all right thanks.